Painting The Hull

[D. Fox]

Yes, the toerail came standard.  Its a nice feature, but its a PITA to keep looking good (mine doesn't right now) and the wood is beginning to deteriorate in places.  I have one nasty split near the bow on the starboard side and a couple smaller splits elsewhere.  Someday it will have to come off and be replaced...I'll have to think real hard about using something else like aluminum.

Paint removal has been a chore.  Its not that difficult for the most part, with the exception of the boot stripe which had many coats of various kinds of paint, some which required a heat gun and scraper to get off.  The cove stripe was bad because some smart guy decided to use metallic tape instead of paint - more quality time with the heat gun and scraper.  But it's all down hill from here.....(I hope).

Dan

[Mike Goodwin]

Fox,

Is your companionway offset to starboard ?

Mike G

[D. Fox]

Yes, its offset to starboard a few inches.  Not sure why...guess it allows more space for the galley, which is on the port side.

Dan

[commanderpete]

Fox

It seems like your boat is different than the other Ariels I've seen (toe-rail, backstay chainplate, offset companionway, cove stripe).
The last two don't seem like they would be owner modifications.

Do you know anythig about the boat's history? A custom model?

[D. Fox]

Thought I responded to this last week but now sees there's no post...

My boat isn't an Ariel, but a Bristol 27.  I follow this and a couple other boards (like the Cape Dory board) because I'm interested in Alberg designs and similar boats.  Unfortunately, there's nothing comparable for Bristols - there's an email list but I like this format much better.  

Apologies for the confusion and non-Ariel postings.

Dan

[commanderpete]

Happy to have you. The Bristol 27 is a very pretty and stout boat. My friend just sold his, unfortunately.

Speaking of painting the hull, there is one consideration for those who are planning to do it with regard to the one-part/ two-part paint choice.

My boat had previously been painted with one-part Brightsides. I was considering trying the two-part Interthane. After all, Don Casey says that any idiot can use the two-part paint. I was going to put that theory to the test.

Interlux makes a product called Multithane primer. It says right on the can that it can be used over one-part paint in preperation for the two-part top coats.

I called the Interlux technical service line to discuss the project. Their representative denied that Interlux had ever made any such claim. He predicted disaster if I should persist in my foolish course of conduct. Not wishing to risk all that prep work in the face of such uncertainty, I used the Brightsides again.

So, if you're going to paint the boat with one-part paint, I'm really not sure if you can make the switch to two-part Awlgrip type paint in the future.

[D. Fox]

Thanks for the warning - I am using one-part paint, although I'm using Interlux Toplac rather than Brightsides.  Interlux places it between Brightsides and Interthane Plus in terms of performance.  I don't foresee switching to a two-part...if I need to repaint I should be able to lightly sand and recoat.  Interlux says you can put two-part over one-part by first applying a conversion coat, similar to a primer.

Tomorrow is the big day - putting on the first coat.  Hope the weather cooperates.  Second coat will be Weds, followed by boot and cove stripes Thursday and Friday.

[Dan Maliszewski]

We are thinking of refinishing the hull on Adele M this spring, and ran across a product called Signature Finish.  Seems ok, but not much info on user comments.  Anybody heard of it or used this stuff?

[ebb]

That's a specific question.  I have not used the product,  but to get discussion going perhaps this is useful.

USPaint's Awlcraft, an acrylic urethane,  is country cousin to Awlgrip, a polyester urethane, the top of the line coating.   Signature Finish is an acrylic urethane.   Every paint company in the world makes a paint or coating for every conceivable surface using acrylic urethane.   Powered by no/voc-low/voc laws these films have moved slowly toward more solids formulations,  not here just yet.   My guess is that the kit you would get out of Florida from Fabula Incorporated would be shipped HazMat.  My '95 Dodge has an acrylic clear coat over the color.  It's getting eaten by the sun.

Awhile back I looked into Signature Finish as a varnish alternative:  A 50 square foot kit is about $2 a square (his color paint about 1/2 of that) - you'll get 3 coats of Honey Teak what has the UV blocker and 2 coats of Clear which is the 'sacrificial' coat protecting the blocker.  Interesting?

Here's a quote (sic) I copied off the website:
"Honey - can be applied over Money or Clear at any time.
Clear - can be applied over Honey or Clear at any tale."
Very Zen!

Also noted that the Finish has a 6 hour pot life which sounds like it's formulated to act like ole time varnish - for ole timer's ease of application.   I'ld guess that the solid colors are likewise.  Wouldn't that be interesting?   You know,  paint or roll this twopart stuff on like it was paint.  Assuming that noone else here is into spraying.   Repair and touch up are supposedly easy with acrylic urethanes, contrare to the harder stuff.  

The president of Fabula Inc. is Tom Fubula.  who makes a Big point on his website that he is available at anytime by phone for answers.   Personally, if I was going to use a system for the first time,  I would rather talk with Tom than USPaint.  I don't Know that, I'm just assuming you won't get personal tips like you would from a small company, by Phone!

Be great if someone on the board was brave enuf to try this guy's product.
I didn't run into any color chips on the site or, if I may say so, too many testimonials.

[drp]

The hull above the waterline and topside finish on my Ariel is kinda old - checked and cracked all over - not deeply, but enough to be noticeable. It looks like it hasn't been painted in quite a while. Are these marks something that can just be painted-over, or do they have to be sanded out? What's a good paint (type and brand) to use?

Also, the interior paint is flaking and peeling, especially in the V berth. Same questions as above, I guess. I don't want to get some waste-of-time finish and have to go through this agin in 2-3 years.

BTW - Thanks to all of you who replied to my questions about refinishing the out-for-seven-years-in-the-winter wood on my Ariel. I've got my work cut out for me on that. Just brought the boat home for the first time this Sunday, so now I can have at it. It looks much bigger sitting next to a station wagon than it did next to a tractor-trailer!

[ebb]

Hello drp,
With  the crazing you describe on the hull,  you are looking at a paintjob beginning with deep cleaning, sanding, fairing if you wish, and maybe three coats of HIGH BUILD EPOXY PRIMER.  

Assuming that you have no flaking and the hull is sound,  you will be creating a brand new base to paint, roll, or spray on whatever film  you fancy.   What you get is ALL in the prep.


Inside requires a particular kind of insanity.  You have to decide what you want.   If the flaking you describe is caused by damp,  you have to fix the cause.  338 did not have any flaking inside after 40 summers and winters wet and dry hot and cold.   You may have a former owner's attempt at painting there in the forepeak, usually without a requisite primer.   You may be looking at scraping the loose stuff,  and sanding.    Not knowing what you got,  I personally would avoid machine sanding unless you are into total renovation and want to strip the whole inside.

Look into PeelAway (sp?) as an alternative - a non-toxic paste you layer on thick, cover, and come back next day to remove.  It works with varying success depending on temperature and paint and how thick you actually put the paste on!,  but will not harm the polyester.  Try the Search Button here.   Do not use any commercial hardware store strippers.   That is a small confined space.

There's a lot on painting on the board,  and a lot of good looking boats in the gallery!

[commanderpete]

Painting the hull would be the easiest and most satisfying project. The hull is a nice broad canvas upon which to work. The prep work is pretty basic.

Painting the deck is more difficult--removing hardware, hand-sanding, etc.

Before you paint the deck you have to decide whether any core repair is needed, and whether you need to do the non-skid areas also.

In terms of paint, the choice is between one part ( e.g. Brightside, Toplac, Easypoxy) or two part ( e.g. Awlgrip, Interthane). Its generally thought that one parts are easier to work with and two parts will last longer.

There's probably not much difference between brands of paint of a similar type.

Has the boat been painted before? That would make a difference.

Nothing special about painting the interior. The working conditions are miserable.

I say paint the hull first. Its one of the least important jobs, but it will make you feel better.

[drp]

Hi Ebb and CommanderPete - Thanks for your tips! RE hull painting - it looks like it has been done before. The paint is oxidized, and it looks like the paint was pretty thick. The flaked areas show thick layers, and these are mostly around drain holes, etc., and scattered around the hull. I'm pretty sure the underneath is sound. Do the areas where the thick paint has chipped need to be built-up and feathered into surrounding areas, or can you just sand it close to smooth? Also (hate to sound stupid here) - what is "fairing?"

Topside paint needs to be redone, including the non-skid areas. Can those areas be re-nonskidded, so to speak?

Just got the inside wood removed and the boat covered before the snow hit last night. Alright!!

Thanks again. Happy thanksgiving!

[ebb]

'Fairing' is something you should try to find images on the net.  Automobilers and hull painters do it a lot.   On ebb's Gallery page you'll find some brownie mix on the hull sides that have been 'faired'   Fairing on a hull is usually done by identifying low areas on a lowgrit  sanded surface, filling by smearing on microballoons mixed in epoxy to a 'bondo' consistancy.   Then you take your long board, in the case of hull prep is a bendy piece of ply or plastic with a handle or two,  and tediously sand in long strokes at differing angles.  I think I have attempted to describe the process adnausem on a thread or two.  Or three.

C'pete's lovely young bow ornaments have 'fair' legs.  Flawless, smooth surface transitions from one feature to the next.   Fair are the lines on page 144 in the Manual.   When the sun shines oblique across the hull surface there are no lumps in the shadows - the hull is sleek and smooth end to end with a long unwobbling shadow.

You'ld have to get the jaundiced eyes of a pro to look at the topsides.  Could begin here with some photos.   If the paint is really sound and sandable you can add more paint.   If there is caking and chips or paint letting go from the last job,  you are going to have to remove it because the problem will always be there and get worse.   If these are isolated, you could fill with onepart fairing compound, even bondo, and hope it'll hold till next time.   If the surface is bad (after you have sanded a sample patch to see what happens) you are looking at restoration.  That means taking the topsides back to the gelcoat.  And the hull also if that was painted.   Old dull paint that's holding on teneciously is a good surface to add on to if you go thru the steps to prep.

Gelcoat should only exhabit crazing, hairline cracks in corners and so forth.  After cleaning and sanding the surface, wider crazing fissures can be scored with a sharp tool and filled,  the rest can be ignored and painted over.

I personally would put on a sandable high build  epoxy primer after filling and fairing.  After sanding with 120 and higher grit this would have the smooth unbroken surface for laying on the film of your choice.   Epoxy sticks to the boat, and all paints stick to epoxy.

Using West Marine products (Defender, Jamestown, Hamilton et al) will probably get more responses  here on the board.   Been there - done that. The fleet has more experience with epoxy and paint from that marketer and can respond with specific tips and procedures if you decide to use the same products.   West System, Interlux, Pettit hope you do.

Once you get the ducks identified in a row,  it's a piece of cake.


If your deck has been painted,  the original anti-skid patterns have been filled either a little or a lot.  Or has sand in the paint.   That's something that has to be addressed.  Also how to proceed with all the fittings there, and hopefully no unpleasant surprises in the deck core.

Images would be very helpful and more specific.

[commanderpete]

Yeah, some pics would really help. The more the better. Are you sure those aren't chips of gelcoat?

Anyway, you need to examine how and why the surface has failed. What type of cracks, where are they located, what is the pattern?

Did a prior owner just try to paint over the underlying problems? It never works.

Like Don Casey says, you need to address the safety/structural issues first.

Paint is cosmetic. Except maybe non-skid. Otherwise somebody might fall down and need help.