Painting The Hull

[Stephan]

Hello guys,

I've gone from blithely saying "I'll repaint the hull completely anyway" to "Maybe I won't repaint anything at all, only the little repaired spots", and anywhere in between.
I didn't realize how expensive the 2 component stuff is until I looked at the price lists. Then it starts looking as if I would have to pay maybe $800 for primer, 2 part enamel, 'converter' (whatever that is)  for my commander's hull. Or am I missing something? With the coverage figures and the books saying you need to use at least 2-3 coats (since I'm painting over existing paint) I'd think I need a gallon of each, or even more???
With one-part enamel like Brightside or Easypoxy it looks like 1 gallon of primer and 1 gallon of enamel will be needed. And what else? That would run a lot cheaper, maybe $250, right? And then there's the even cheaper 'Alkyd' based stuff. In weak moments I considered that, too. But I reckon with all the work of sanding and painting, it makes little sense to save too much on the material itself...

So, what's your advice? And am I right in guessing at 1 gallon of primer and 1 gallon of paint? As I'm a bloody beginner at all this, would you recommend the 1 part enamel to me?

Greetings, Stephan

[bill@ariel231]

Stephan

I've used both the two part and single part polyurethanes like interlux "brightside". Regardless of the choice of paint, it's the work you put into the prep work that counts. If you are painting outside I recommend the single part paint. Why you ask? you may have to sand off a coat of paint if you get attacked by bugs or dust while the paint is wet (it's happened to me on a couple of occasions). Before you jump in, recommend you look at Don Casey's book "sailboat refinishing" or Dan Spurr's "Upgrading the Cruising Sailboat". Both cover the sort of prep work you'll need to do and the roll-and-tip technique.

As for durability, both single part and two part paints will give you similar years of service. Around the boatyard, my boat gets an occasional scuff mark from other boats, ladders and the like. As a result I've painted the boat about every 4 years.

If you are going over existing paint, make sure the paints & solvents are compatible before you start painting the whole boat. Brush some of the converter over the old paint (for two part) or some the single part and let it dry before you commit (you may find the old paint needs to be sanded off).

cheers,
bill@ariel231

ps. my last paint job required just 2 1/2 quarts for the topcoat (two coats).

[Bill]

I didn't realize how expensive the 2 component stuff is until I looked at the price lists. Then it starts looking as if I would have to pay maybe $800 for primer . . . Stephan

You can have it done professionally for about $2k here in the SF Bay Area.  That's only about a $1k more than you will spend doing it yourself  :rolleyes:

[Mike Goodwin]

I painted #45 for less than $160 , 2 coats primer & 2 coats Brightsides poly , that includes sandpaper, solvents , etc. Use foam rollers and roll it out good, not too thick . Most people put on too much paint per coat .

That was 4 or 5 years ago and it still looks good today .
Here's what it looked like before;

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=237&stc=1

And after;

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=269&stc=1

[Stephan]

Mike,

does that mean you used less than a gallon of each? Here in Chicago at West Marine a gallon of primer is $100, and a gallon of Brightsides is another $100. I'd spring for that, but if you say I might need a lot less, I'd buy less than a gallon, or at least single pint cans of the stuff, instead of one fat gallon can.

Your paint looks gorgeous! I'd like to post a similar success story. Weather tomorrow is supposed to be fine, so I can do the primer coats. The real paint goes on next weekend then...

[Mike Goodwin]

I used 2 qts of each .
Look at the West Marine house brand single part poly paint . It is made by Interlux for West Marine and is the same thing as Brightsides , just cheaper!
I think I usd the 333 thinner , I pour both cans into a gallon container , add max  amount of reccomended thinner , mix well and pour back into original containers.The amont that won't fit is what you start with.
Use the small, hard, white foam 'hot dog' rollers and roll the paint out as far as you can , really work it, but roll slowly . Too fast and you get bubbles in the finish that may not go away .
The best foam roller covers are made in Germany and are available at the Depot or Lowes and get the small plastic roller pan .

Prep everything with a Porter-Cable or DeWalt 5" random orbital sander .

[Stephan]

Thanks for all your tips, Mike. The thinner is the trick maybe to get thin films and make do with 2 quarts of the stuff. That's nice to know. The West Marine brand you mention is 'Seaglow', right? You think it's the same as Brightsides? Great! I'll head to the store soon and buy the stuff then and try my luck later today, weather is perfect...

[Mike Goodwin]

Sea Gloss !
My buddy that worked at West , assured me it is the same , as Brightsides.

[Stephan]

Thanks guys for all your tips. I still didn't paint her because last Sunday it turned very cold suddenly, and I understand that you should paint within a certain temperature range. I wish I'd have the weather you enjoy in California.
I got Brightsides 1 compontent polyurethane paint (thanks for the hint about West' Sea Gloss being the same, but they didn't have the color I liked). That cost $34 per quart, and after reading up on your posts and Don Casey's tips I guess I might be fine with just two quarts after all. The old paint is Awlgrip (according to an old surveyor report)  and maybe 16 years old!! However, apart from multiple scratches, being generally dull and the damage I showed you guys before, it's in 'good' condition. So I will sand the surface and currently I'm considering skipping the primer altogether -according to the books it is maybe unneccessary.  I'll report after next weekend if that went well...

[Mike Goodwin]

Primer is good for filling all the minor scratches that dont show until the final coat is on .
I usually spot fill bad gouges with surfacing putty from 3M , sand them down, prime 1st coat , sand that with 180 on an orbital sander , then prime 2nd coat & sand .
Wipe the boat down with de-natured alcohol and lots of clean rags between coats .

You can paint as long as it is not windy and the temp is over 50 degrees , 60 to 70 is best .

[CapnK]

Instead of the roll-n-tip method, has anyone given thought to (or even better, tried) using one of those "paint pad" applicators? They're like a thin sponge-backed furry piece of cloth which tips out the paint as you draw the applicator along. Seems like they do the same function as a roll/tip job, but in one process...

I'm wondering about it for boat use, since I've used them with great success while painting interior walls of houses/apts. I worked as a commercial painter for about 10 years, and had *plenty* of experience with conventional rollers/brushes/sprayers.  The paint pads worked surprisingly well, when I tried them a couple years after becoming a not-a-painter...

"Katie" suffers from inadequate prep work done prior to her last painting - she has places where mold/mildew is growing *under the paint* on her hull, so a redressing is in her future...

[Robert Lemasters]

Do not use the paint pad applicators, tried one on my Commander as an experiment  when I painted it the first time too many bubbles and it streeks. I have repainted my hull two times sinse I  bought the ol'boat. The first time was restoration and the next hurricain damage. If I ever do it again, I would follow Mike Goodwin's advice as to fairing and preping the hull. From my experience and temperment, I would use a good quality artist's synthetic flat (Bright) brush) 3"or 4" wide and apply the paint to the hull in very thin layers, as thin as I could get them, maybe three coats for real good finish. More control and management of finish with the synthetic haired flat artist's brush. It would take time but it would be time well spent. I allways admired black hulled sailboats and painted my hull black, no noticible effect on temperature inside; although, dings , scratches and dirt show more so than white.White in my opinion seems to run a lot, and it seems that everything is painted titainium white, it's even an ingredient in Zero candy bars. My wife got me a  special water activated $200 a gal super coating that was  real hard to apply and a real mess. I went with Interlux and am sure West Marine would be just as good and had no problems except that I applied it too thickley,from inexperience. Get the job done, you don't have to be too perfect no one gets that close to your hull to see little imperfections or cares. Have fun. Sailed yesterday, learning to sail on one of these Pearsons is great.

[Howard]

I just had the bottom done on 355. $800. While she was out I rolled the topsides with Brightsides - 1 gallon. Got some lovebugs in there but still looks good. It is a three foot job if you know what I mean.

[tha3rdman]

whom ever painted "III C's" last time could have benifited from some of the advice here, it looks as if A) they didnt thin the paint enough, or at all; and B) they did not put the paint on in thin coats. Bursh marks are horrendous as are the few runs. About a 20 foot job.

[Stephan]

That 20 foot job sounds like the crime I committed on my poor commander. I painted using brightsides 1 part polyurethane last weekend and thinned it as much as allowed (10%). Since I did it alone I used only a 3'' brush - had no second person to help with rolling the stuff on.
I was surprised to see how thick the paint was. Maybe the low temperature was still a factor (60F or so). I simply couldn't get the coat to be very thin. I used one quart for one coat for the whole hull, which seems to actually be close to Brightside's coverage figures (550 square feet per gallon, stated on the can).
 :eek:
The hull was pretty dull before, but now she is very shiny. But the problem is that a shiny surface shows uneven spots (crazing, cracks, scratches) so much more than before that now you can see the 40 years of age. But the worst is that the brush marks and uneven 'runs' are very obvious. And I think darker colors actually make the effect even more obvious...
The next day I sanded the worst bits down a little and put another coat on, but that didn't help much anymore...
I'm pretty disappointed, maybe I was a bit naive, but the finish is much poorer than I hoped it would be. Maybe filling all the little scratches, sanding and priming would have helped, but what seems worse is that the paint looks uneven also on previously undamaged areas...
My consolation is that from afar the hull looks very nice now, but don't get close!