Tiller Discussions

[mbd]

an alternate solution might be to wrap the butt of the tiller in one layer of 6Oz cloth to bind the end of the tiller together and re-drill the existing holes.

I'm afraid I have already sawed and dismembered the end of my tiller. I'm going to try and clean it up with a dremmel this weekend and see if I can get it to fit.

Otherwise, I've been looking at tillers online, so Ebb's link is quite timely, though pricey. Defender's run around $60-$70, these are $99! :eek:

 Web page here: Stock Custom Tillers

[bill@ariel231]

Tiller Option C is pretty close to the one i'm using now.

[mbd]

How do you like it? Anything you'd change?

[bill@ariel231]

I like the tiller we've got. We usually run the boat with two or three aboard with all folks at the forward end of the cockpit. when we do that, i can keep the tiller down where it belongs without banging my knees.

The triton folks have tried some other patterns (Tim Lackey et. al.) has one on his web site with a sharper rise near the tiller head (close to pattern A) . This may make for some more room at knee level. I think it's worth making a pattern in cardboard or roughing out a mockup from a 2x6 to see what works for you. Good insurance before buying a shape you may or may not be happy with in the long term. If you are buying a store-bought tiller in person, you might be able to trace the shape in cardboard and try it out in your cockpit before buying.

[ebb]

To make the hinge right you need to have solid metal - NO THREADED  metal - in the holes.  OK?
 
MCMastercarr for about six bucks  has an 18-8 shoulder bolt that would put 2 1/2" of solid machined metal across the holes in the fitting.  Their 3/8" shoulder bolts have 5/16" nuts at the tightening end and a 9/16"D head with a 3/16' hex socket...  Weird.  But you get the idea.  18-8 is a BS term for s.s that comes from the orient.

I lucked out and got a long 3/8" american style bronze hexhead bolt  (one NOT threaded to the head) and threaded the shoulder down to where needed. Hex bolts are sometimes casual about their diameter, but I got a pretty one from Jamestown - exactly 3/8" and stamped VFM 655 on the head.
Shoulder bolts are machined exactly to size, and stainless would be OK to use  here
but I like this install to be traditional all bronze head, nut and washers.   Ended up with only about 5/16-3/8"" of threaded end for a crown nut or nyloc!

Anyway if you want less slop in your tiller to rudder, this seems to be one of the ways you can close it up.  When you think about it threads can do some serious cutting to egg out the holes in the tillerhead when the parts loosen up again.  Threads are undersized as well, so that's slop built-in.

It is also important imco to put two washers on each side to help stabilize the bolt even more and keep the binding nut from turning off.

[Bill]

Of the "custom" tillers illustrated, check "A."   It's similar to the one on Maika'i and allows one to stand while steering without raising the tiller fitting off the tiller head.  This prevents the tangs from becoming bent as well as limits the wear in the bolt holes.  

These tillers are (or were) available off the rack at West Marine for about $50.  Of course, that was ten years ago . . .

[Tim D.]

Of the "custom" tillers illustrated, check "A."   It's similar to the one on Maika'i and allows one to stand while steering without raising the tiller fitting off the tiller head.  This prevents the tangs from becoming bent as well as limits the wear in the bolt holes.  

This will probably be the one I will go for eventually,  particularly when motoring it is difficult to see over the dodger without standing.

[ebb]

The other tiller source was ID'ed just for research, sorry.  But if the same picture of the range of tillers is used in  catalogs we could assume they are from the same maker.  

The important thing for me was the addition of a strongback on the underside of custom tillers.
   
I will always go with Defender.  They are the ones to check prices against.
A family owned marine supply,  the business has been around since before computers.  Since Seabiscuit defeated War Admiral, since Joe Lewis knocked out Schmeling, since the first nylon toothbrush and the first ballpoint pen!  That's OLD.  They may be the oldest continuous marine catalog.

 And so far as I know have never forced any other marine chandlery out of business like a certain outfit that is often mentioned on this Board.
They've never let me down.:cool:

[ebb]

For tillers try this:
http://wwwpyacht.com/online-store/scstore/h-h_andl_tillers.htm
It's a tiller page with a dozen or more tiller shapes.
Mike, will you borrow it  to over here???

Blasted thing didn't take and I tried to erase it.
But if you can get to pyacht the site has an H&L woodworking page, which shows they do a bunch of other stuff including making CUSTOM tillers to order.  I think you'd expect to pay twice the price of the ready mades.

{On  pyacht.com they have an access port to H&L Woodworking (Even I got There!) Then, on that sort of home  page you scroll a short menu to Tillers.}

The picture of the tillers Mike put up for us are H&L for class boats.  Their forms are more stiff than the drawings of another set of tillers on that H&L/pyacht channel.  Those great looking sexy tillers are what I will choose from.  Defender uses one nice picture for all their listed tillers,  have to assume they are all the same pattern, and that pattern I think is one of the group here. It's a definite 'S' shape, not flattened like the class boat pictures.


I checked out the tiller info in the A/C Manual.  H&L makes or used to make
a copy of the original Pearson tiller for our boats.  The scale drawing (pg83) is not an 'S' shape at all, but a very conservative 2" bow. You may find a substitute for  the original in the classboat group but shorter. 48" max.
The tiller drawing in the Manual is 50" long.

If I find a readymade I like  I'd go with a longer one like the 54 1/2" and tailor it.
This particular one is also wider.  Because of all the talk here I"m thinking of making a wood model of an alternate tillerhead, and getting it cast.  One that will take a wider butt.  If I don't get around to it I can always skinny the tiller down to fit the one we got.

That model in current online Defender is 1262F and weighs a whopping 5.2#.  Have to think about it a little.    Before I order I will cross check with H&L on the shape - and confirm the model number with Defender.  
Probably fake a close resemblance of any tiller you like by making a rough scale and sketch -  freehand a quick cut out  in cardboard or 1/4" pressboard -  hold it up in the cockpit.  Hey, it's important!

The 'S' shape is important to me and so is the extra length.  I wanna stand at times and I wanna sit on coamings (cushioned.)

A new off the shelf class tiller, even if a little short, would make a classy spare imco.


THE QUESTION IS
how long is the ideal tiller?
How do we measure an 'S' tiller - straight from butt to tip?  If a tiller can easily go above sitting knees, then is it a good idea to have a longer one?
What's too long?  When it hits the coamings.  
The longer the tiller the easier the steer BUT it's also a wider arc, and reaching here and there all day long in the cockpit will get old too.
OK, who knows?

Comments?  Who among us has the ideal tiller,  h m m m m m?

[Tim D.]

I had been doing a little research also but the Pyacht does have the best page to identify what H&L can do.

But on further contemplation I think I might make a mock up as someone (I think maybe Pete) suggested.

Because besides issues of having to stand to motor and knees getting in the way while steering on a heel, I also realized I may someday want to put in a autopilot or at least a sheet to tiller system, so how the tiller sweeps up may play an important role.

I figure if I end up buying or making a custom tiller, it might as well be exactly the way I want it.

Tim

[mbd]

Here's Ebb's link from post #30:

H&L Woodworking

And their tillers:

[mbd]

Ok. Here we go. And pardon the "workmanship". (It's a bit embarrassing after Rico's mast base.)  

I drilled 2 5/16 holes in the top of my tiller fitting, then "squared" them with a dremel to fit bronze carriage bolts. (1/2 way done in the pic.)  I also "squared" the middle hole in the side to fit a third carriage bolt.

[mbd]

I shaped the butt end to accept the tiller fitting, then clamped it on and drilled the 5/16 holes for the carriage bolts.

[Bill]

One of the last two is on Maika'i.  Here's some contact info:

H & L Marine Woodwork, Inc.

2965 E. Harcourt
Rancho Dominguez, CA 90221
Tel: (323) 636-1718
Fax: (323) 636-1720

New ownership sometime in the '90's.  Not clear if they sell direct any longer, but they did supply West for a number of years.  

http://www.socalsail.com/bg/co/h-l-marine-woodwork-inc/  

And, you can also order their tillers from Defender:

http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1%7C118%7C297677&id=76313

[mbd]

Dry fit after being drilled - I like it!