Enlosed Head?

[Tony G]

Well, pretty standard.  But not 'original' standard.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not knockin' all of those original beauties out there in the fleet.  After I found that rotted bulkhead, well, one thing just followed another and...  After all, I kind of stumbled into this boat thing by reading Tim Lackey's (pre-boat barn) site as his project progressed from one job to another.  Tee-hee, as far as the wife's concerned it's his fault

I've chosen a typical layout for a boat this size.  It's going to be a weekend camper for the most part.  At the same time we're hoping to make changes that will facilitate coastal cruising maybe offshore work not limit it from ever doing so.  I'm hoping to achieve strength and saftey and storage and storage and storage.

This last season was pretty much a seven day a week work load.  'Had to do it-didn't like it, but it fattened kitty.  Nearly all of my boat work was done with the credit card, barter wire and the internet (read flattened the kitty).  Got all of the big pieces we need to put her back together though :cool:

As far as pictures...ugh...she's wrapped in plastic inside the building waiting for winter to release it's grasp.  I can't even bring myself to photograph her like that.  Woe

[Theis]

So Tony and MBD:

Have the palm trees started to drop their leaves in your part of the world.  It's hard to believe that a month ago my boat was still in the big pond out there, and here I am looking out over an ice covered little pond.  How long do you guys have to go before the weather becomes somewhat bracing?

Ice boating anyone?

[Tony G]

Theis

It IS bracing.  It's not -20F until the end of January through the first half of February.  I always feel like I've accomplished something by just living through it.  Ick.

Anyways, how about some more info on your macerating head install.  That is the one issue we haven't made a final decision on here.  I would like to do away with the porta-poti.  Yet, I'm afraid of having some problem with a 'system' and having to disassemble it post use pre pump-out.  Coupled that with the fact I know of only one marina here with a lift station.  Can you manually 'pump-out' your holding tank?

To help keep that tropical feel around here we have two Sago palm trees, Cycad revolutia (I believe).  They go out in May and come back in October.  I wonder how old those forty-footers are that you see at the swanky hotels are?

[mbd]

The commute in to work was a lot fun this morning!  Looks like you guys in the midwest are sending your slop our way!  

In spite of the snow however, the highlight of my commute this morning was passing a guy towing a beauty of a "project" boat North.  She looked about 22'-26', a deep full keel with an attached rudder, maybe a 4' draft, a wooden cabin trunk, and a transom that swept right up to the poop deck!  Hubba hubba!  I think I almost caused a wreck rubber necking as I went past.
 
He must have gotten an end of season deal from some thankless Southerner who was so busy sailing he didn't have 6 months to pull her out of the water each year for routine maintenance to keep her up...

[Theis]

Ah, so much for commiserating on the shortening days and being indoors rather than where I would really like to be.

As for the details, all I do for the toilet at the end of the season, after it has been pumped out, is to pour a gallon of -60 stuff from West into the toilet and flush pump it into the holding tank.  Done!  With the 13 gallon tank, and recognizing that this is a man's sport, I only pump it out when closing up the boat for the winter, unless, of course, if I have been cruising.  In other words, in a man's world use the big genoa as protection from prying eyes, if needed, when nature calls and you are out on the open water.  The head is only for ladies, absolute emergencies and when in port (but there you probably have a shoreside facilities).

With the holding tank under the cockpit, I can pretty much tell how full it is by watching the waterline on the boat when no one is on it.  13 gallons will weigh 100 lbs, and that will lean the boat aft.  Then a pump out is long past due.  As you know, the Ariel is pretty sensitive to weight near the stern. (The balance point is just aft of the mast, at the forward most part of the keel bottom).

I guess you could use a manual pump out (manually pump out to where?), but for the inconvenience and the $7.00 cost, just do it.  I was on a boat a couple years ago, and was disgusted when, one morning, I found the skipper pumping out his tank into a secluded bay in which we had anchored.  Don't do that, please.  I never went sailing with the guy again and have no desire to do so again.

Incidentally, the principal reasons for the electric mascerator toilet, other than convenience in flushing, are 1) they use less water per flush (fewer times between pump out, and 2) the waste piping to the holding tank is significantly smaller.  Because it is smaller, it can bend more readily to accomodate the anti-siphoning fittings and is better hidden in the passage under the bunks.

[ebb]

With small children aboard a small boat there is a another ballet than when racing around the buoys with the boys.   Being a dad who grew up with a girl child, years ago now, certainly an enclosable head is prefered.  And a sitdown toilet is best for guys and gals, young and old, and all points of sailing etiquette on a day cruise around the pond.

Carrying effluent around in a special tank with yards of tubes and wires, loops and in-pumps and out-pumps,  Y-valves and guages, even tho mandated by robotic authorities, is nuts.   To avoid the expense of a whole new system the old is jerried to conform.   I know it is a giant leap to a composter - it certainly is initially as they want $850 now for it.   Probably comparable to the cost of a complete wet installation.   It also requires developing new habits in relieving self,  and special aiming techniques for the toddler and the older.

I've thought the AirHead a fine alternative (and a legal one) to the crazy requirements of the marine wet head.   Their website hasn't generated in the two, three years I've looked in.  It's a grand idea that needs some visable energy support,  where else but at its public window.   Price may be the problem.   There is but a single model.   Aside from price, the name may be off-putting.  But the intent obviously was to feature a device that is easy and clean to use.  A niche easy to fill,  one would think.  Of course maybe it is becoming popular,  but still  you need the installation photos and testimonials (very few.)   I hoped my interest here would get some feedback, but it hasn't.   I'ld like to know why everybody here seems to accept the particularly disgusting rubegoldberg conventional head?  

Another thing:   the porcelein head with pump body and handle, awkward tubes, mismatched stainless and plastic fittings has a freaky Dr Frankenstein's laboratory look to it.  (Imagine what the kids see and smell - or how improbable it is to your guest lubber.)  The beige composting bin is definitely more friendly, friendly and cuddly, like a retriever!

Waste tank effecting sail trim in deed!

[mbd]

I was looking at Epiphany's comparison picture of the Bristol 27 and the Ariel in regards to this thread.  Looks like the difference here is the length of the cabin...

[Theis]

I was amazed at how similar the Bristol is to the Triton, which also has two forward portholes a head closet.  Two feet makes a big difference in toilet habits.

[CapnK]

If you print out that picture, and hold one over the other, you will be even more surprised. Aligning them at the mast, the B27 cabin trunk is almost identical, only it extends aft what looks to be maybe another 6". Aligning them at the main bulkhead, the Ariel actually seems to have a slightly larger (though very slightly) main salon. Two more feet of boat, in order to have an enclosed throne, it looks like.

Here's a graphical overlay of the 2 - though not the best resolution, it serves the purpose. I have the image in a larger size (a 110k GIF) if anyone is really interested. Black lines are the Ariel.

[mbd]

Cool. That's very interesting! I never realized how similar the two boats are!

I'd be curious to see how a Tartan 27 measures up.  It has an enclosed head as well. That was another boat on my short list.

[ebb]

Epip,
How you do that?   You have something there.   Even tho the B27 has a 1000# more displacement,  her beam is 8' like the Ariel.   Maybe the bilge is not as slack producing a smidgeon more volume.   It shows how frustrating a few more inches in cabin length and height would make rearrangement in the Ariel that much easier.   Be interesting to see how much room  you'ld actually have in the B27 bathroom.   You're right,  you pretty much have an Ariel there with longer overhangs and more weight.  

Could possibly have an enclosed head by blanking out a dead light,  or rearranging the lights with smaller ports like Mike Goodwin wanted to do.  Arguably a safer offshore alternative.  And fit the enclosed head in that way.

I gave up on 338 because at the time I wanted to keep the look of the lights.  There is every reason to have smaller opening ports thruout the cabin, especially if you're headed into the tropics.   An enclosed head at the companion way doubles as the below deck wet locker,  and other important temporary large item stowage.

[CapnK]

Ebb -

To make the overlay and other things you'll see me doodle, I use a free graphics application called "The GIMP". "GIMP" is an acronym for "Gnu Image Manipulation Program". The GIMP is much like a commercial (read: "expensive") image manipulation program that you have probably heard of, named "Photoshop", except it is Free - no cost to get and use, and, if you are enough of a nerd to know programming languages and wont to do so, you can also get and futz with the source code of the program. I do not, I simply enjoy the use of such a powerful tool.

There are versions of the GIMP for windows, Linux, and Mac operating systems. The program and installation instructions are available here:

The GIMP

[Theis]

Here is a picture of my Jabsco mascerator head, in the usual head spot.  Note the vented loop on the right side, at the level of the bunk.

[Theis]

Here's aview of the 13 gal. holding tank, mounted under the cockpit floor (outboard version of the Ariel).  FYI, above are two gauges, a) an ampere gauge that I use to test whether a light is working, and  to estimate the amount of juice I am drawing so I can estimate my battery life, and b) a voltage gauge so I know whether the battery should be recharged.

[Tony G]

This is great.  It still falls under the 'enclosed head?' thread and it's breaking some new ground.

Theis, we just need more pictures of your boat.  There's alot you're not telling us.  For instance, just how tough are you IL guys?  I noticed you don't even use padding on your berths.  Yeowza!