Battery location poll

[ebb]

Your bats right under the cockpit sole is a great idea,  Best yet.

I'm going to "waterproof" one or both  port and starboard lazarettes, as some people call them, with plywood panels and glass tabbing.  So that no water can get below thru the seat-lids.  I see the inside floor of the stowage at the same level as the cockpit.

   To have these panels (which in my case would run the length of the cockpit along the lower corners)  as sides to cleat the battery boxes to would be they only way I can see how to do it.   One reason is that I think the cockpit still needs support which the longitudinal panels would provide - there are heavy varying loads concentrated here.  My guess is that you are going to build up 'tables' from the hull for the batteries to sit on and they will be loaded and accessed thru the sole.  Of course those structures could go from hulll to cockpit bottom providing said support.  

  But  I'm really interested in what hatches you choose.  I assume the cockpit to be a wet zone.  Some people have developed rot here because of clogged drains and constant wetness.    I've gotten Bomar for 338 but I'm not really happy with them.  Designwise, as I haven't tested them yet.   Don't know if I'd even put one of their cast aluminum reinforced offshore lexan doodawhotsis in the cockpit.  It's only a pressure fit on half-round rubber using two dogs.  (And then you'ld have to reach in under to release the dogs.)   What else is there....acrylic access hatches?   What can you step on?   And what truely won't leak on the batteries?

The right hatches and I can see your idea in my case at least for the OB starter bat.   And who knows, the others too.

[ebb]

It just occured to me that I think 338s cockpit floor is fiberglass with pieces of plywood matt-glassed to the bottom in strips to make it stiff.  Could be losing it.  (mentally)

Yet I know I've read here I think of someone whose balsa core had rotted and needed replacing.  But I've never seen a How-To or an I-Did-It-My-Way repair on the cockpit floor.  Must have dreamed it.  Nobody would put a balsa core in the cockpit, right???

[Brent]

The hatch is a plastic Bomar 16x18". I've stepped on it a few times, and with some reinforcement around the perimeter, it should be sturdy enough.

The cockpit floor on #66 is as you describe, with wood glassed to the underside for stiffness. Doesn't seem cored to me, although I vaguely remember something to that effect.

[glissando]

Boman makes a line of cast aluminum flush deck hatches that are quite decent looking and somewhat less industrial in nature than the "commercial" line of aluminum hatches from Bomar and Anchor Marine.  There are several sizes available, but you'll need to dust off your checkbook--the price of admission is high.  The smallest rectangular one is nearly $300.    These aluminum hatches look pretty much just like the plastic versions.

The commercial hatches, which feature positive screw-down dogs and are very waterproof, but huge and heavy and ugly, are the best, but probably overkill and likely unable to fit in a small cockpit anyway.   The  price of these monsters is even higher, but they might be the best choice for offshore work.

[glissando]

Oops--hit "enter" before I meant to.

And I should have typed "BOMAR", not "BOMAN", too.

I've never been thrilled with the plastic hatches.  I have a Tempress 13x18 in the cockpit sole that works fairly well, but I wouldn't use it offshore, nor would I use it above anything I wanted to keep dry, like batteries--it simply is not completely watertight as I had hoped.  Fortunately, mine isn't above anything that is harmed by some minor wter drippag--just the stuffing box.  I'll probably install a nice aluminum hatch within the next year or two and be done with it.

Hamilton Marine sells the commercial and lighter-duty hatches I was talking about in the last post.  Worth a looksee, anyway.

//www.hamiltonmarine.com

[ebb]

'Lo Capt. Tim,
Very quick morning scan reveals no hatches in Hamilton's online catalog,,,?   Didn't look under books flags or marine furniture.

The only design I can imagine that would work for waterproofing a hatch would be a "knife" edge that seats into a rubber gasket.  There is no way a bendy plastic hatch can be dogged tight if it depends on surface to surface seal.

Back when internetting for hatches I found ONE hatch with a positive knife seal design but they didn't export.  Must have been a French outfit.

[Theis]

ebb:

You commented earlier in this thread about no one reporting water over the cabin sole = and no one appears to have taken that lead.

I have on several occasions, a few of which I will recount.  The first I recounted earlier was when I first bought the boat and the motor lassarette was leaking.  A second time was when the hatch was left open in advertently.  Another time one of my through hull hoses spring a pin hole leak.  A fourth time was this summer when the deck was stove in (when I did need the power pump to bail - I didn't know the water was from the rain).  Of course, with the bilge full of beer, it took a lot less water to fill the bilge.   Lastly, when laid up, there was a leak in the chain plate, and over the course of the winter enough water had dripped in to fill the bilge.  That would not seem to be a problem, since the boat was laid up, but if the battery had become inundated, and discharged, it would have been totaled.

I have also been on a sinking Triton and watched as the water came over the cabin floor - then the battery went dead killing the radio, lights, everthing - including motor starter.  (We did not sink, as it turned out).  I have always been thankful that the Ariel has a deep bilge, not like some of the flat bottomed boats - such as the Pearson 26.

[Tony G]

Theis
Not to whip a dead horse, but what about a sealed battery in a "watertight" compartment?  I don't think laminating in a platform under the sole is a viable option, but in a case like mine where the cabin sole has to be rebuilt/replaced, it would be very easy to section off a portion for that purpose.  Gasketed hatches in the cabin sole with positive latches(kinda rhymes) should keep water out until the head pressure get  exceedingly high at which point I'm in a lot more trouble than dead batteries!  Maybe I'm obsessed with keeping the weight low and a little forward.  So go ahead, shoot it full of holes 'cause I want to know  before I start laying glass!  Tony G

PS Of course it's not just Theis' it's open season for all of you and Tim too.

[ebb]

My new bulkhead to be has a new plastic Bomar 19 x 19.  It's made out of white molded acrylic, an acrylic lens, tiny bitty hinges with itty-bitty pins, and two plastic dogs.

It came with a little peelable label that says,  Do not sit stand walk kneel or treat the hatch badly in any way.  (it's down at the boat or I would probably quote it here)

It was a special order.  Cost like 300 bucks.  It's bendy, you can easily twist frame and or lid.  So you got to mount it DEAD flat.

It's something you'd find on a Bayliner.  Probably with a leaky lens.  But it was the only Bomar I could find that would open inside and outside. I'm going to mount it vertical in the cabin so its flimseyness is merely problematical.

What I don't get is why they can't make a line of hatches out of a material like marelon,  or delrin for that matter,  something besides a weak cheap throwaway plastic that has no place in an exposed environment.    I think I've seen access hatches out of polypropylene, might trust them one degree more.

[glissando]

Ebb,

Don't know what size exactly you're looking for, but here are a few model numbers you could put into the "search" box on the Hamilton site to get the proper hits.  If you get tired of typing numbers in, tell me the size you might be most interested in and I can tell you which of these item #s is the closest one.  These are all the models in the current catalog.

Bomar Cast Alum. Inspection Hatch--4 models available:

147406
147407
104622
104623

Bomar Commercial 4-Dog Cast Aluminum Hatch, Guaranteed to 30' Head--7 models available:

104611
104615
104616
104610
104612
104613
104619

Anchor Hatches Anodized Aluminum Flush-Mount Hatches--9 models available:

148397
142262
117453
117454
117459
142226
117477
117476
117478

It's worth requesting Hamilton's print catalog, while you're on the site.  Good prices, great service, well respected.  I feel fortunate to have one of the stores 20 miles away.

The Tempress hatch I have features a knife-type gasketed seal, but obviously mine is not dead flat, so it doesn't seal properly at the sides.  At least the hatch is less flimsy underfoot than most plastic ones.  Photo below is during installation.  I got this one at West Marine for about $80.  It's 13 x 18 or something like that.

Tim

[Mike Goodwin]

For you freshwater sailors this isn't a concern ,
but us salty folks have to be concerned with chlorine gas , very deadly , made by adding saltwater to a 12v or any DC battery setup .
Ask any old submariner .
I don't like taking the chance of turning my Ariel into a gas chamber thank you very much .
And water has been over the cabinsole in #45 by at least 6" judging by the watermarks , but not on my watch .

[ebb]

Thanks Tim for your time on this hatch business.  And the tip on the Hamilton site!

I went and bought some batteries
but they weren't included,
so I had to buy them again.
                      (Steve Wright)



[Alberg30]Info about Cockpit Sole Hatches  

//www.alberg30.org/pipermail/publiclist/2002-April/003482

(so far as I know, having dealt with Jeff at Thrifty Mariner, it is, this source for Bomar seconds or obsoletes,  obsolete - phones unanswered, messages not returned.    If you order direct from Pompanette, it'll take your breath away and empty yer wallet.  But dealing direct with the factory you can order special options like a translucent white acrylic lens e.g. like I did for the frufru bayliner hatch.  Otherwise, Hamilton is a great source possibility.  Those basic Anchorhatches of aluminum and s.s. may be the way to go for the cockpit deck.  //www.atyp.com/anchorhatches/  they actually SAY watertight!)

[mrgnstrn]

In case anyone was waiting on the edge of their seats, my battery is now located under the steps.

It only took two stops at Bacon & assoc, two stops at boatus (both pre and post merger) four stops at WM and the finishing stop at Fawcett's.

by the way, Fawcetts is the only place i found that will let you borrow their "huge ass battery cable" crimpers to make up cables.  everyone else wants to sell you that expensive and small hammer crimper tool.

one small glitch is that when the battery is in the battery box (plastic cheapo) it is too wide to fit under the bottom step, so i will have to have it like a foot or so back, more like in line with the bulkhead.  close enough.  i shouldn't have to mess with it that much. (knock on wood)

thanks for everyone's insight.  if i have to mess with them that much, i may opt for the hatch in the cockpit sole option, but not yet.

-km#3
"ariel spirit"

[Anthony/Bina]

It seems ariels have the battery under the step, but where does the commander keep its battery?

Mine seems to fit in a fiberglass box that fits in the starboard sail locker. And it was very slopply mounted to the foot of the quarter berth where it meets the locker.

There was a little wood wedge to keep it in place...oh brother!!!

Can anyone tell me the placement and method of mounting the battery in the commander..

And a picture would be a huge help!!! :confused:

[Jeff]

I found mine under the floor board beneath the companionway ladder. It is also held in place by some boards. It seems secure to me and I have decided to leave it there.