things to look for while inspecting

[Frenna]

Hmm, since I am thinking about trailer options, I am wondering in the above photo, where did you get those adjustable supports, or are they home made? I do wonder if there should not be some more fore and aft support for them, though.
 
Thanks

[carl291]

The upright supports with pads came from Sail trailers in Columbus GA.  www dot sailtrailers dot com.   I think the address is correct , I spoke with Spence, These folks are sailors and can build a very nice trailer also.  They also have a video on you tube launching a sailboat off one of their trailers.  

It does look spartan compared to some trailers with all types of bracing running everywhere doesn't it? The tubes ar two inch square 1/4 steel, same as what is used on a trailer reciever hitch, it's not going to bend. I may some small tube bracing later if I can find any movement.

The trailer towed great from Macon GA to Hartford CT and back when I picked up this boat. I think the trailer frame would collapse before the uprights bent.

[christopher]

I have been up to see this boat as well.  I was very close to buying her, but pulled back.  I'm still considering her for the springtime.  I thought that the dripping on the floor was from the motor as there was oil running down the shaft and lots of oil containers in the well.  

In any case, if I were to purchase I would sail her home about 120 miles to Milwaukee.  If the keel void taking on water, would it hurt to leave the keel void problem as is for a season until I had the chance to make proper repairs the following winter?

[bill@ariel231]

Unless you see an obvious break in the fiberglass or a bump from a bondo patch that is ready to come loose the right fix can probably wait till later. Is the bilge glass in goodshape? On A231 a gap in the factory installed glasswork underneath the vee berth was one of several paths for water entry to the keel (any time the boat was hosed down below some water got in the keel).

If the bottom is basically sound you can probably get by with a bit of 3M 5200 around the rudder shoe and the keel strap before tossing her in the water.

The photos are encouraging, she is in far better shape than A231 was when we got her.

Cheers,
bill@ariel231

[Dennis Rioux]

Christopher,

Here is another photo from the starboard side. I am pretty sure it is the keel void issue -- there wasn't any trail of oil that I could follow (at least externally). If you look at the broker photos taken in August 2008 you can see areas of dampness on the floor that look like they are coming from voids.



The sailing it home option seems like a nice one -- I'd've had to portage her around all the non-operational locks on the Fox River between Green Bay and Lake Winnebago. :rolleyes: Good luck.

Dennis

[ebb]

Second what Bill sez.  Right-on!

Went back over the thread and didn't pick up anything specific on the encapsulated ballast KEEL VOID.
If for instance the boat hit a rock and cracked the hull and water comes in through the crack, you can still sail the boat and pump the bilge. ( Naturally that depends on the severity of the damage.)
I would guess there are many Commanders and Ariels that are sailing with water in the keel void.  This void is the space around the lead that was closed in by Pearson across the top with fiberglass after they lowered the lead into the hole.  The lead did not fit exactly,  therefor when closed in over the top there is a 'void' on one or both sides of the lead.
If the lead is not totally covered (which is what immobilizes the 2500# chunk) like at the aft end,  most if not all the water that gets in will end up in the bilge.  If it hasn't been plugged with foam and so forth.
But it is not a problem with the integrity of the hull.
Most owners never do anything about it. and the boat sails on.

Caution.  There will always be the boat that has a special problem that can't be seen from a generalist point of view.  Don't know that I would take an unknown sailboat on a voyage without checking the hull out on the hard.  Eyeball and hammer.  Check out the whole rudder too!

If the boat has mushy decks, which comes about from fresh water getting in the balsa core through unprotected fastenings and openings,  
THAT is a major problem from a DIY repair standpoint.
But I know of one Ariel with delaminating composite that still sails and will probably keep on sailing  until something is done about it!

The deck  in the way of the composite is composed of three layers.  Top fiber reinforced polyester layer is at least 1/8"/3/16",  the endgrain balsa core about 3/8", and the third inside layer which can also vary but is usually thinner than the top.  1/8" frp is quite stiff, so "mushy" is a qualitative word here.  There should be no GIVE of any sort anywhere.  A healthy deck won't depress when you step on it.  In hammer it's a dull thud.
There is balsa in the deck from the bow to the end of the cabin (not sure about the Commander.)  The balsa peters out as it approaches the toe rail.  A rail stanchion  might have fastenings passing through solid glass AND through balsa.
The cabin top is also cored (yes, under the mast) - but not the sides.

Good luck!:cool:

[christopher]

Hey Dennis,

You said you found some soft areas... did it feel soft or did you find it with a hammer?

[Dennis Rioux]

Christopher,

First, let me say right from the get-go I am by no means an expert or even an amateur at this fiberglass boat thing. But, yes, tapping with the handle of a screwdriver right around some of the stanchions I thought I heard the "thunk" instead of the "ring." It seemed pretty localized, and not particularly widespread. Overall, the decks seem to be in pretty good shape, at least in comparison to the Ensign where it seems like I'll be replacing real acreage. The paint was chalky but I suppose this is to be expected. And, of course, I did not ultimately have the Ariel surveyed, so I have no professional assessment to back me up. There was also some crazing of the gel coat in the cockpit area, for what it is worth (the forward part of it -- is the correct term the bridge deck?).

I think the consensus of the others chiming in here is accurate -- Nordlyset is a solid example of an Ariel with some of the well-known aging characteristics of the design. As I noted above, it is more the money involved and the physical size of the boat that is keeping me from jumping in with both feet. I hope the Ensign will keep me from kicking myself in ten years or so for not getting this boat while it was available. Time will tell...

Dennis

[christopher]

Thanks for the insight Dennis.  The foredeck area felt good.  Those were probably my footprints you saw up there  I didn't go to that boat very well prepared neither in skill nor equipment.  I've since put together a backpack full of supplies for boat shopping  I did see the crazing you mentioned in the cockpit and around the stanchions.

Those areas in the lower region of the hull certainly seem to point to moisture.  I want something I can sail home, park on a mooring for a few months, sail for the season, and begin repairs and refit the following winter.  I'm not sure that this is the boat for that plan, but I'm not making any decisions until Feb/March and my mind changes like the wind on what exactly I'm looking for.

I love Ensigns.  I learned to sail on them and they are fantastic boats just to beat round in.  Definitely post your progress somewhere that I can watch.  If you are in search of resources for your restoration, the Milwaukee Community Sailing Center has the largest fleet of Ensigns anywhere (at least 20 of them).  Their boatyard guy Jared is very experienced with them and is a great resource for refits of these old Pearsons.

Have fun with her!

[mbd]

...if I were to purchase I would sail her home about 120 miles to Milwaukee.  If the keel void taking on water, would it hurt to leave the keel void problem as is for a season until I had the chance to make proper repairs the following winter?

Hi and welcome Christopher. Your plan is exactly what I did when I purchased my boat a few years ago. I had known core issues around the stanchions and bow pulpit, but the boat was still sailable. It was a great motivation during the recore to have done a short cruise and have had a season of sailing and getting to know the boat. (Ultimately, I ended up paying someone to finish it so I could get back into the water sooner.)

FWIW, I suspect I still have the "keel void" issue and plan on addressing it, but in the meantime, I am really enjoying sailing and continue to compile lists of lists of jobs to do when funding allows and time is available to properly tackle them.

These are really great boats to sail!

[Dennis Rioux]

Christopher,

I am pretty sure the Ensign I bought came from the Milwaukee fleet. It came with a bunch of sails from 1972 with references on the sail bags to Milwaukee. At some point in the past it was named Misty and right now it is named Harem with lovely self-adhesive black-on-gold mailbox letters on the transom. Needless to say the name will be changed again despite the potential for ill omens and bad outcomes, otherwise I'll never get my wife and daughters aboard. I'd be too embarrassed to sail it in daylight in any case. (The funny thing is, my friend kept sheep in the field where the boat is now, and the ewes would always congregate under the hull for shade in the summer. The name Harem is written on the cradle and for the longest time I thought it was my friend's idea of a joke...:rolleyes:) Anyway, I'll post photos and rants about this or that aspect of the project on my boats website -- this URL ought to be stable. Thanks for the information about the Center down there, I'll have to look them up. Who knows, maybe I can pick up a used set of sails when the time comes.

Dennis

[christopher]

Well I won't be buying that Ariel in Sister Bay.  I bought another boat.. Bristol 29..

Good luck with the ensign!