The oft discussed outboard extra ballast revealed

[SkipperJer]

The difference comes from the fact that the compensation ballast in the Commander is making up for the lack of an inboard motor and the weight of the extended cabin of the Ariel.  Most PHRF systems give a different rating to each boat indicating that their weight (when sailed with the designed weight installed) isn't quite  the same even with the installed lead.  The somewhat old information in the chart on the Pearson Information page notes this:

http://www.pearsoninfo.net/info/phrf.htm

The Ariel scores an average PHRF of 255.5 and the Commander 250.5.  I know that current numbers used by local sailing clubs on the Chesapeake are 252 for the Commander and 257 for the Ariel.  

Sadly, nobody registered an Ariel or a Commander in the Chesapeake Bay Yacht Racing Association in 2008 (CBYRA runs the major races on the bay). A number of them ran in Wednesday night local races in smaller clubs.  I intend to put my Commander out there in 09 in the non-spinnaker class.  I don't expect to win  but I'm looking forward to a number of good days on the water with some friends.

[ebb]

For the record,
A-338 came with a form-fitted 120# pig with an iron ring in it exactly like the rings I cutoff that were sticking out of the 'encapsulated' ballast.  It is shaped like Mike's (post 37) to fit right behind the end of the glassed-in ballast in the bilge.

Somebody must have really hated this little piggy because there are a bunch of hammer marks embedded in the S.O.B. top!
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The pig is 9" long - 7" tall - and 6" wide at the wide end.
Bathroom scale weight - 120#
A cubic foot of lead comes in at 708#
A cubic inch at .40969# at room temp.
Getting an estimate of the weight of the added pigs doesn't help with the curve of the bilge, does it?  But maybe you could ballpark a guesstimate by averaging the angle at 45 degrees.....?

[commanderpete]

Wonder what I have under there.

Its all glassed over and looks like a shallower bilge than 227

This picture was taken from underneath the stern-most floorboard looking forward

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=3113&stc=1&d=1142982282

[Commander227]

I think you have the same pig, perhaps a PO brought the rest of the bilge up to the level of the top of the pig. The lift ring looks the same as on 227.

[bill@ariel231]

that's curious.. A-231's bilge looks equally shallow, but my lift rings are on the centerline. it would be interesting to get some measurements from the bilge to the floorboards on a couple boats to see how similar/different they are in profile.

it might take an xray or a thermal imager to know what is really down there without breaking out a saw.:rolleyes:

[SkipperJer]

sure looks like what I have in Commander 270.  Mine has an extra layer of glass laid over it and is nicely painted by previous owner.

[Bill]

that's curious.. A-231's bilge looks equally shallow, but my lift rings are on the centerline.

Those rings are likely attached to the main external ballast located in the keel.

[Rico]

C-227 I have the exact same lead Pig. My bilge is fully glassed and is fairly shallow - and dry...

I like the stiffness of the boat and had not considedred taking it out...

[Commander227]

I like the stiffness of the boat and had not considedred taking it out...

My wife is also a fan of a stiff boat, as would I be if I was sailing in the conditions you've been sailing in for the last few weeks, But 227  is doomed to a fate of sailing on an inland lake. Also, with my converting to an electric inboard, If I'm going to have an extra 500 lbs of lead ballast on board I'd like it to be swimming in acid and doubling as fuel.

[Commander227]

(Commander Compensator removal)
I know it wasn't hurting anybody... but dang it irked me knowing it was down there on those days with drifting conditions. On heavy days I can always throw in a reef.
It had to go!!
The process;
First I cut the fiberglass tape holding it in place.
Being the compensator was wider than the hatches and 500lbs pretty unmanageable I cut it in half lengthwise with a saws-all. The notch down the middle made it pretty easy, although I had to lift and pry it back and forth to finish the cut between the hatches.
To get the halves out I had to slide them back to the deeper section of the bilge and lift the front of the pig out of the aft hatch. I used a stout piece of steel square stock accross the companionway and my vang. I ended up having to throw in a cascade to get 8:1 as I could not get it to budge with 4:1.
Scrap lead is at $.42/lbs, so now I'm looking for some $215 shiny thing to bolt on the princess.

[Commander 147]

My electric drive will have 500 lbs of batteries and getting that 500 lbs out would bring me back to even. I had wondered how to cut it and now I guess I have me answer. Thanks for posting that. I'm especially happy to know it will come out without cutting up the floor.

[Tony G]

Mike, you are a wild man.  I'd like to spend a spell in your shop.  There always seems to be something good going on there.

[Triton106]

I have been very curious about the extra ballast on Ariels/Commanders.  Too bad C-227 is not near the SF Bay Area.  I have a Triton and have been contemplating ADDING ballast (about +/- 300 lbs). Does anyone in the SF Bay Area have extra-ballast that want to sell? I am willing to pay more than what the recycling centers will pay.
 
Ray
Blossom - Triton 106
Alameda, California

[Rico]

Ray -
Most recycling centers will be happy to sell you lead. It is usually in bins and you can pick & choose the pieces you want. It won't take many to get 300 lbs.
I have not bought lead (Mostly Al), but I have noticed that lead is commonly available in very nice uniform shapes of all kinds - ideal for boat ballast.

[ebb]

I have a number of reclaimed/recycled lead pigs.
They are more or less 34" long
5.5" wide
and 2" deep.
Semi-circular in section.  The lead was cast into split halves of iron pipe from lead-clad wire along the Coast Hiway.  Same lead used in the ballast of the Elizabeth Muir.
Approximately 135# each.