Rotted Wood Combing

[mbd]

Ebb, how about eye bolts through the holes and eye nuts.

Tried it this weekend. I've spent way too much time fiddling with trying to get the thing to just raise evenly; it always pulls the left side up first. I thought it might be a balance issue, so I tried multiple different combinations of holes and even flipped the coaming around. Then I thought, maybe it was too much friction, so I added genoa blocks to the ceiling since I'm not using them for sailing. Then I built some crappy shelves so I can decorate my garage with sailboat hardware.

[bill@ariel231]

On Ariel 231 there was an 8 inch section of threaded rod that ran through the winch base (exiting at the bottom). I don't see that on your coamings. Can you hang or clamp the coaming from the winch or its shaft?

[mbd]

Bill, I do have that threaded rod coming out of the winch base. I was hoping for a solution that would let me pull the wet coamings up and out of the way while I do other things, while at the same time allowing me to do both sides at once.

How did you remove your winch base from the coamings? Or did you?

[bill@ariel231]

now that I think about it.. I clamped two pipe clamps vertically into a workmate (a black&decker portable vice). The Pipe clamps were fabricated from 1/2" pipe. The threaded rod at the base of the coaming was dropped into the 1/2" pipe. The threaded rod was free to rotate in the pipe while I varnished. Since I clamped the two coamings at different heights, both could be rotated while being varnished. I'll attach a sketch...

[ebb]

A wonderment guys!
Lest not forget that rot in some boats has developed in the corners where the pieces of wood meet.
At some point they should be taken apart and rebedded in D.... in the compound of your choice.
The idea being to exclude sweet water totally out of a join.  A coaming on 338 was attached to the winch base with five screws, the front to the rabbet in the post with three.  Could be taken apart every oncet in awhile. ;

Dolfinite came in two forms once.  One was the pleasant brown stuff that reminds one of shoes and ships and sealing wax.  The other was nasty OD green that guaranteed if you ever had to take the pieces apart again they would be as new.  It was probably something like PCP in the formula and that is why it disappeared from the shelves. Say good riddance!
But did run acrosst, maybe on the woodboat channel, a builder who mixes cuprinol in with his D.  No proportions, bad smell, toxic - but I thought I'd toss that in anyway!

[mbd]

I hadn't considered removing the forward portion - I'd have to drill out the plugs and all. And lord knows what a mess of things I'd make then! :eek:

[ebb]

Yeah, if someone glued those plugs in you wouldn't have a chance.  But if they were tapered plugs set in varnish you could get them out without damage.

[bill@ariel231]

i've never needed to disassemble the coaming. this is a glued/screwed joint. I just varnished the complete coaming. I did need to glue in dutchmen to patch some damaged areas on the coamings (splintered vice rot).

[mbd]

This is the starboard side, forward and bottom edge of the coaming. You can see the lower portion, where the tool is embedded, is rotting. Some rot also runs along the left side of the handle.  There is also rot on the bottom edge of the section to the right, the forward most end where the coaming attaches to the cabin trunk.

What is the best way to deal with this? Could I just soak the area with expoxy before I varnish? Or, since neither section is visible, maybe I could chisel out the bad stuff and fill with epoxy? It doesn't seem like I need to patch to the extent that Bill did, thank god.

[Mike Goodwin]

!st- soak the area with white vinegar

2nd- soak it with real antifreeze ( not the "earth friendly"  west coast stuff ), the stuff that kills cats and other small animals if they lap it up . It also kills rot spores . This soaks in and absorbs and replaces the moisture in the affected area . Remember PEG ? Same stuff.

3rd- put a fan on it an let it dry real good , in my area that could take 48 hrs or more this time of year .

Now coat it with epoxy.

The vinegar kills rot and pickles the wood and soaks in deeper than anti freeze or epoxy. Thw antifreeze kills rot and soaks in more than the epoxy ( it is chemo for rot ) . The epoxy fills the voids where the wood fiber is lost , bonds it back together, and seals it off from air and moisture ( 2 things rot needs to survive .)

Using this method I have never had rot come back .

 If you have lots of money and don't mind paying too much for stuff , you can use Smith's CPES . I had some tested by a chemical engineer and he said " it is $10 worth of epoxy and $20 worth of thinners and they charge over $100 per gal " I make my own for $30 a gal.  

You can't just thin with acetone , that breaks the epoxy down. It is acetone , alcohol , xylene and other nasties that do the job right . I use stuff called T-12 thinner that is the right blend

[bill@ariel231]

mike & mike

looks salvageable with vinegar etc assuming the area doesn't show in the cockpit...

If the surface is soft enough to dent with your fingernail, I'd tend to reach for the circular saw; cut out the rot and start again....

have fun,

bill@ariel231

[mbd]

You guys rock - thanks! The coamings will wait for the moment - I need to get supplies anyway. Right now, the sun and a weekend day finally coincided, so I'm headed outside to the boat with my cirular saw...  

[mbd]

Awaiting final sanding, crack repairs, epoxy and varnish. Mike G's "Chemo for Rot" has been generously applied many times over to the rotting area.

The "raising" issue was solved by attaching each of the ends of the line to the eye bolts after running them through the blocks, then pulling the "loop" created in the middle. Not perfect, but I can adjust the coaming as I pull it up without touching it.

How do you deal with previous fastener holes? Some have butyl in there, others old varnish or other junk.  Do you drill 'em out, fill 'em up, and redrill?

[ebb]

Marnin, Mike,
Looks like you got the winch base still attached but without the screws???
Naw, must be me ole eyes.

'Old' fastening holes can be managed by using the same fasteners but use a stamped s.s. doughnut washer under the flathead.  Might be called 'finish washers'.  They'll cover more area around the hole.  Might also go next size up on the screws and the finish washers, depending on the damage around the holes.
Would test your holes with proposed screws by gently prescrewing without the coaming on to see what you will run into.  You don't want to screwup the head of the screw when you're sweating them in.  Easy to do with bronze.  Probably easier to use philips head screws with a screw bit that is married to the size,  should fit deep and snug.   Old fashion straight blade screws same thing.  Larger screws like #12 and 14 will be hard to find a sized screw bit for.   Old time brace-and-bit cranks had over sized blade bits that you could cut off the chuck end to use in your milwaukee.  A brace and bit may still be the best way to screw in the coamings!

That is, unless you have an Hitachi Koki Cordless Impact Driver (WH12DMR).  Looks like a green  jordan basketball shoe from the hood, costs way too much, but it's an absolutely awesome tool.  Way, way beyond your variable speed driver.  By way of what are essential tools for wood and boat work -
another QUANTUM LEAP has been acheived by Festool.  For a mere 4 or 5 grand you can work DUST FREE with absolute german precision.  But this sez nothing about what the F. System can do!  These are tools like no other.  

If you are using old fashion tapered screws, you should have Fuller taper bits with countersink to drill out the hole - and matching plug cutters which make tight fitting tapered plugs to fit the countersink.  Of course you can predrill the screwhole with regular bits, but that is why you should 'try' the hole with the screw befor you put the coaming on.  Size up conservatively!  The wood behind the holes in the boat may be a little tired too.

Another choice is to go with round head screws with a washer under the head. Not extremely professional.

Old mangy holes can be drilled out with the next size up Fuller drill bit and countersink. Just tap in a new bung.  If you don't have Fuller bits and matching plug cutters, you are at a disadvantage.  Bought plugs are not tapered, and larger sizes than 1/2" hard to find.
Partially drilling out a used hole to be plugged - without Fuller - is a pita.  If you are planning to do any more woodwork on the boat it is well worth the investment to get a set - add a couple oversized plugs cutters like 5/8 and 3/4. imco.  {Fuller, for some eccentric reason does not make a tapered 3/4" plug!!!}  Without a countersink on your taped drill bit you have to drill the hole size you want with a forstner bit in a piece of 3/4" scrap and clamp it as a guide over the hole to be plugged exactly so and carefully drill with the same f. bit PART WAY into the coaming.  Then, of course you GLUE in the plug, and trim it off.
There is no invisible repair - no matter what method.  But best with Fuller.

The thing with Fuller is that you make your own plugs (with a drill press) out of scrap that matches your elegant work.  Store bought plugs will never match and never fit. :eek:

[mbd]

Looks like you got the winch base still attached but without the screws??? Naw, must be me ole eyes.

You're right, Ebb. They won't come off. Though, I haven't tried Bill's heated knife trick yet, but I was thinking I'd just leave them attached anyway, I've already got one cracked coaming to fix.

I think I'll go with the "finish washers" rather than the bung route. I don't mind the look, and that way I could do all of my varnishing before I put the coamings back on.

You've mentioned Fuller tools before in another thread, files, I think. I'll have to look into them. But, I have a feeling they are probably outrageously expensive...