Ave maria #350

[willie]

I gave Ballenger's some business this morning, seeing as i won't have a crane available at the ramp. Anyone got any suggestions on mounting the hinged mast plate, how to remove the cast alum. and knock off the tenions....Ebb? It appears to be stuck pretty good, rivits are busted off... Did you thru bolt it down through the orgional wood base or what? I think it will make the mast much more manageable, and might even come in handy going under a bridge, if i can figure out something simple to hold it athwart ship. I thought the upper shrouds would remain tight, but no, due to the step being higher than the chainplates. So we're going to plan B. Or is it C now?! Anyway, looking at all the different ideas.  Thanks for any leads and pointers...:rolleyes:

[ebb]

Only when I got mine off did I discover that it wasn't corroded on as bad as I thought.   It is a very nice. very snug, well conceived fitting -that I couldn't budge.   Probably, on hind sight, because I didn't drill out the rivets with a large enough bit.   The mast extrusion sits on a ledge in the almag casting.   I very carefully SAWZALLED thru the ledge  just at the bottom of the mast.   No big deal if you come in from all sides.   But the aluminum is solid all the way through.

The new insert is in two parts held together with three large machine screws.  The in part and the outer larger part that the mast sits on that is attached to the hinge.   It was custom made* to make up for the height lost by retrofitting without the original mast pad.   However, even tho the deck under the mast has been made solid (removed the balsa core between the mast and the coach roof and replaced with xmat),  spreading the load is still a good idea,  So you can add a little or take away a little (of the mast) to arrive at the designed height - and still have a pad - or not.   If you could x-ray through the boat at the mast you would see just the foward part of the mast directly supported by the compression beam.

I haven't done my homework on this, really.   Have a retro Bomar replacement for the old hatch (which is larger and closer to the mast)  to miss when the mast is lowered.   Not sure how low it will go when it gets to the Pulpit.  Nobody has posted any photos of their lowering/raising rig.  so we are on our own.   Haven't taken the time yet to rig a test model.

Last time we went down to Santa Cruise,  I toured the inner harbor where sailboats have to be able to lower and raise while on the run.   The larger sailboats (up to, say, 30')  didn't seem to have anything special for this.   But I couldn't get close.   The only obvious difference from normal was that the upper shrouds had a bending point rigged in at the height of the mast hinge on the cabin.   One or two looked like the lower part from the hinge point down was solid,  like an extra long turnbuckle,   Couldn't get close enough to see.   Stanchions on the rail may have been incorporated in the rigging of the 'hinge' part.

I have never seen one in use.   On the net,  usually it is smaller boats than Ariels that share their procedure,  and like the trailer sailers,  this is all done at the ramp.

Two things..,  every mast I saw had the hinge type with the long ears and the mast foot rounded in the front.   Every mast was lowered forward.   Which must be obvious as the boom is used as the gin.

2nd... Bruce Bingham's "Sailor's Sketchbook" (International Marine, $15) has four pages therein on "single handed masting."   This is my bible on the subject.  He has sketched on page 36 a very interesting way to rig a "permanent upper-shroud pivot."   It immobilizes the bending point with rigging and a triangle plate - looks very strong and shippy.   It is worth the price of the book,  which is full of good DIY stuff.   He is a great illustrator.  Clear and detailed.   He's the guy with the little white cat usually in his drawings.

With the Ballenger hinge you must allow for partial slackening the upper shrouds (and unfastening/refastening of the aft lowers)  because the knuckle is at the forward end of the mast.   Not under the mast on the centerline in a deep slotted bracket.   The mast is way more secure with the Ballenger design.   Perhaps the deep eared one is great for partial 'masting' required for day sailing.   A curved mast section in flat plates with a single through bolt  (and but partially supported on its rounded bottom) is not strong enough for cruising IMCO.   The mast rests completely solid with the flat one.  

The slackening of the shrouds is a HUGE issue for me.   I will more likely be singlehanding and not messing with the mast often - so we'll see what happens and what the heart stopping drill will be!!!   I firmly believe a cruiser should be able to handle its own mast wherever it happens to be.:cool:

*taking a look at the fitting again - It's too heavy to be aluminum alloy.  But it looks like aluminum.   Must ask Ballenger what they supplied me.

[ebb]

Capt, Bill,  
Forgot to add.   The heel fitting is in two pieces, if I remember, like the one drawn in the Manual.   338's I can't remember,   but the bottom  was attached to the pad.   The pad was spiked through the deck and into the beam with two 3" #16 bronxe screws.   There was some minor balsa core deterioration,  replaced it.   Some of the exposed balsa looked ok, but seemed crumbly.   I had the deck opened up because of the new hatch and just made it solid back to the nose of the coach roof - the width of the hatch cut out.

Also, if I remember correctly,  the two screws that held to pad on went into the beam very close to the back edge.   If I had it apart and were going to put everything back exactly where it was,  I would add a couple more lag bolts.

338 has had a ten lam white oak replacement of the compression beam.  It was put in like the original on the forward side of the bulkhead.   I'm considering adding more bearing support on the salon side in the form of a thick piece of mahogany or teak.   Kind of semi-disguised as trim.  338 has had all of the center portion of the compression bulkhead removed.  so maybe it's paranoia on the skipper's part.   The one piece deck molding with the coach roof right there is strong and non-moving.   It is the deck just forward with all the force on it that compresses and flattens.   The liner is the problem with adding solid support on the salon side........

[willie]

Ballenger says it's stainless steel, had to be for strength. So guess i have to isolate it from the alum. some way. Maybe just a coat of 5200 or something similar, as i've coated about everything else with it!

I'll sure be glad when this initiation of boat ownership is over, and i can take her sailing.l

[ebb]

Man, if this is initiation,  I'm almost lost as to what I signed up fer!

If you talk with Buzz again ask him what the s.s heel fitting is covered with.   As it has some kind of coating.   It may be it already has an aluminum compatible coating.   It is very smooth,  like powder coating - which may be enuf separation.   The mast sits snug but not tight on the fitting.   I like the idea that any water in there will find its way out of the dead bottom, drain completely.   {put a zerts fitting on the mast there to squirt in fresh water every once in a while!)   Maybe a couple V-notches on the bottom of the mast will make it drain that much easier.

Because the mast will tip,  the  wires inside be taken out the side of the mast down near the step.   Because of the hinge, and the hole thru the deck,  the offset (and the loop of the wire bundle) will be considerable.   If you discover a neat way to do this let us know.

We also have to consider a clever disconnect (Junction box?) for the wires down below.  Something even more clever for the coaxial cable VHF.   If I was going to have to take the mast down often for road travel then the junction box would be on deck.   Everything would disconnect in the box.   THAT would be very hard to do unless there is a specific WATERPROOF in/out box in the marketplace specifically made for this purpose.   Wonder if Buzz has a cool suggestion?

[willie]

Wow. My hat's off to UPS. Just talked to Buzz yesterday afternoon, and the thing shows up today at noon! Maybe i could hitch a ride sometime! That's amazing, from Watsonwille CA to Fossil Ore in one day.

So, it does appear pretty shiney. Very nice though. I see i have to figure out holes and mounting to the boat. Still thinking on that.

I have corroded screws, no heads, holding the cast piece in the bottom of mast. I'm thinking the die grinder and cutting off about 1/2'' of the mast, in line with the screw holes, will be about the only way to remove the cast base. Then i'll be at the same height with the new hinge added!

As far as wires go, I'm not gonna have any if i can hang a lantern in the back stay if we anchor somewhere overnight. Will that work? And i took off the vhf cable, antenna arrangement. Now have a bigillion little screw holes up the mast. Thought i'd cut down on all the weight aloft possible. No windex either. Hurts my neck to look that high anyway. An antenna on the stern rail will be fine for the Columbia. Not planning on circumnavigating any time soon.  Maybe we should just email, as we seem to be the only two idiots doing this. ha

Wasn't supposed to rain today, so decided to continue with epoxy work-in-progress. Guess what...
maybe it will let up. The creek's about high enough to launch 'er.

[willie]

Just got off the phone, the hinged mast base is electropolished. No coating. Just a chemical/electrical process that.....polishes.
Very nice. Said it should stay that way for years. But it needs to be isolated from the aluminum, with a plastic sheet, or rubber, or??

[mrgnstrn]

"  plastic sheet, or rubber, or??...."
NEOPRENE.  
The well stocked chandleries should have some sheets of it.  A buddy of mine had to use it to protect his aluminum gas tanks from the small stainless steel staples that held the wiring to the bulkheads.
You should only need a small square and they sell it pretty thin (to reduce the squish when you bolt the two together.

[ebb]

Yeah,  maybe fitting the mast on over thin film of neoprene is very good idea!   If there is room for it.   Brushing on a thin coating of 5200 and letting it harden seems like a solution too.   I might consider putting it on the inside and bottom edge of the mast,  leaving that heel fitting virgin.

Attaching the bottom part of the fitting to the hinge plate will take a little work and some nice fat machine screws of exactly the right length.
Let us hear what you come up with.   Photos?


There's some kind of psychology involved in this exercise that I'm not aware of.   The exchanges here on this forum are hugely important to me.   The give and take and humor of personalities here is the breath and heart of our little boats.   For all intents they are the text book for the A/C.   You have to assume that the information and opinions here is useful and important to not only members but the guests who float thru here.   To some it is necessary,  as it has been for me,  to visit, get edjucated (by Bill and Ed and Mike and Tim and Dave and Tony and Liz and Pete and Tom and Janice and Keith and Geoff and Carl) and steal good ideas.   For the love of sailing.

Somebody,  maybe six people,  maybe sixty were turned on by your successful rebuild of Ave's keel.   Same thing on the mast heel fittings,  and tons of other stuff.

When my time comes to actually go sailing,  which I've done precious little of,  I'm going to need payback in the form of advice and patience when I beg the sailors for help.  NOT KIDDING.


Maybe, just maybe,  the huge amount of info here,  the enthusiasm,  will help save these boats from extinction.   Keep them all sailing for the next 50 years!

[marymandara]

Another good insulator, possibly better than neoprene gasket material or 5200 in the sense that it is harder to "cut" or "squish" through with a sharp or narrow edge, is UHMW plastic. You can get it in a variety of thicknesses, from many inches to millimeters...it is stout stuff but can cut and/or machine with woodworking and/or metalworking tools.

Thin, self-adhesive UHMW is often available in the woodworking catalogs for use on saw fence surfaces and the like, or from an industrial plastics supplier like Laird Plastics in Seattle, Wa.

And Ebb---sailing a boat is about 100 times easier, certainly more intuitive, than rebuilding one! Plus...understanding that there is nearly nothing you cannot repair if you should happen to break or prang it...you will have much less stress in learning to handle the boat, as well!

Dave

[Jim Wiles]

Bill,
 Does Ballenger have a web site?
 Thanks,  Jim

[willie]

Here's the link...

http://www.sfsailing.com/ballengerspars/

:cool:

[ebb]

As you may have noticed on the net,  There are a bunch of enthusiastic Catalina owners, too!   Take a look at

//www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/mast-repair3.htm

[ebb]

The B hinge plate has 4 pre-drilled holes for machinescrews.  The parts were separate again, one here, one down at the boat - my impression is that there isn't much leeway, but a little, to attach the heel to the plate.

[willie]

I'm working with Dave to get a new billet aluminum one machined. The one i have is a bit corroded, and missing a chunk where the hammer and chisel shouldn't have hit, but did. I think a solid chunk of aluminum, flat top and bottom, so we can bolt the hinge plate to it would be the way to go.  Will be plenty of room for the pre-drilled holes to work. My head scratcher right now is how to attach it to the wooden step--lag screws , or thru-bolt to the inside. The wood is in pretty good shape, as is the deck under it, and support beam for what i can tell.
So what do you use on the ss bolts running through the aluminum? Buzz sent me some Lanocote, smells like a sheep! But supposed to be the best for corrosion and lubrication.

One thing nice about the boat--you get tired of sanding, there's always 6 or 10 other projects you can work on! Kinda like the ranch.