Ave maria #350

[willie]

Found the ones i want ya all to see-- all the way up to where the prop cut out for an inboard (filled in on 350) it appears that the last 2-3" is just added on. I can see clear through it in a couple places! This is under the gel coat. Guess there really isn't much going on up high, filling the gap 'tween rudder shaft and the mold--except down where the shoe attaches! Gonna tie it all together when it warms up some more.

[willie]

think i've found the nastiest job there is. grinding fiberglass, copper paint...

see how it's different? maybe this is the illusive foam???

[willie]

other side.

[willie]

that last one she was still a little wet, thus the different spots of color. The addition is pinkish. Any thoughts? You can see where the glass just wraps around, then the gap filled with gobble de gook/who knows what, and faired. Wa la, 350's done. Next!

[ebb]

IMCO   Pearson had a heel of a time - and the guys just didn't get their broomstick handles deep enough into the mold - when laying up.   When mixing polyester just a tiny bit of catalyst will cause the resin to kick too early if you're working too thick like in the 'trailing edge' and down in the heel.

338 had the same missing piece,  except it was still in there when the shoe came off.   DFO had your shoe off at one time and just didn't refill it.   DFO in my case didn't want to disturb anything and put it right back but drilled new holes thru the side of the shoe,  causing more problems inside,  and making it even weaker.

I don't know if it is clear anywhere here but I had to REBUILD the whole trailing edge in front of the rudder.   That's because I obviously don't want to go sailing.   I keep telling myself that the Ariels did just fine befor I came along.

I stand by the 'wrap around' fix suggested.  I'ld put the wrap more straight up over the heel,  dieectly over the wound.

It's hard to believe that Pearson would market a hull that had that much REPAIR to the trailing edge.   My guess is that it came from the factory that way.   [338, also had a abalone sized chunk come off the bottom of the keel in the middle where the laminations were not pressed down in good enough - the factory repaired it with a primitive form of bondo - knew it was the factory because you could see the roving going across undamaged.]   The traling edge is not doing that much work,  except at the heel and the gudgeon.   I would make sure it's all tight,  take the dremel and clean out the cavities and fill.   Dental work.

Don't sweat the epoxy work,  if at first you don't succeed. grind it off!
West System has produced enough words about their products and methods to support their epoxy.   You might as well go with them.  Heed their cautions.   Remember -  portugese farmers from the Azores built your Ariel!!!   Look, if ANYTHING is not clear,  just ask,  my eyes glaze over at any block of writing too.  We're just trying to make it easy,  not really to influence you.   You'll be the expert when you're washing the glass fibers out of your arms!

"I have not failed,  I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.""  Edison.    

[willie]

You crack me up Ebb!
Hey, at least i know it's just not my boat now!!
And i'm in 100% agreement with you on all accts.
I was thinking about doing  a massive rebuild back there, but when you think about it, it's just filling space. Not much stress except at the bottom. And the strap if that fails. And it's been this way since 1964. I think a little glass and epoxy or poly resin over it will be fine.

So can i assume it's all poly? Dave says i can put poly or epox over poly, but not poly over epox.

Thanks for the help!:D

[ebb]

Capt Bill,
NO poly,  Use only epoxy!
Even yer granma gonna tell you that.
It is much funner to use and your repair
will last another lifetime!

[willie]

Thought i'd post a couple shots of some boat work. Jr took this one. Don't ask what i'm doing. Had extra 5200....

[willie]

here it is troweled out. probably nuts, but thought after a couple coats of varnish sealer, it might work to seal 'er up. gonna be in fresh water. had the seams between planks, so thought 5200 would work for filler. It actually came out pretty good. so will paint stick to it??

[willie]

here's my first battle with epoxy, ever. helps to read the book.
i was lucky and had one good hole for alignment.
wrapped woven roving mat down in shoe, up sides, filled with mish mash of biaxial cloth, wetted it all slapped on the shoe. had enough room on sides to fill good with epoxy. then got out the silica, and made some peanut butter. i think it turned out pretty good for a farmer. but i did read the book, followed to the letter. west sys. puts out enough info. so i can be dangerous. don't think this baby is going any where now.

[willie]

yeah, it's a farmer job. probably should have ground off more paint, but it'll smooth out eventually. got tired grinding.

so how do i drill holes that come out the other side where they're supposed to with a hand drill? ebb? anyone? work in from both sides, meet in the middle?  why is Nothing on a boat square?
heeheehee

[Tony G]

Bill
Outstanding!  I've always admired people who throw caution to the wind and start at the top:D  Most people start with small insignificant projects just to get a 'feel' for the medium.  Way to show them.  The new-uh, wouldn't it be a foot if it goes into a shoe?-looks great.  I bet it's as strong as it ever was.  Hey, whose got time for playing around...we're aging faster with our boats out of the water than in.  Thanks for posting pictures, Tony G

[ebb]

Right ON Capt Fossil.

Have we ever seen a rubber covered rudder befor???
Now THERE is stepping out into the expanding unknown!   Whatza matter with that?...looks great.

If you want to harden it up,  don't know that you NEED to,  Maybe some of this underwater high-build epoxy primer would firm it up.   At least so you'ld have something to sand down to when you renewed your bottom at its first haulout (2005...2006...2007???)

Otherwise, I,  for one, would really like to know how well it lives underwater as a coating.


Looks to me, sitting down here in the Bay Area,  that your fix of Pearson's Fontanel is A-! Perfect.   That little ole shoe got a whole yard of good stuff to hang on to Now!   Professor,  when you publish your paper on your method remember to post what journal has it!

I have a single 6 foot 1/8" thick 1 1/2" wide aluminum batten from the hardware store that is great for fairing.   Lay it flat on the boat and take you reading as to what has to be build up or taken off,  never fails.

I've also gotten to really like West Systems 407 fairing compound.  I understand but do not know from experience that it is ok to use uinder water.   It works great with my personal laminating epoxy as a fairing compound and makes fairing by longboarding very professional.  I have used it to fair the area you are working on.

Faired 338 in the same keel area with a 1/4" ply board 18" long and 3" wide.  3" is the belt material I use.   I use 36 grit all the time.   I put two 3" pieces of 1 inch or 1 1/4" clothes-pole near each end of the ply piece,  screwing directly thrru the center of the dowels thru the bottom of the ply strip with a single Grabber.   Actually thru the  dowels into the handle,  the screws are loose in the the short pieces.   The handle cinches tight to the base.   I use a simular, if not the same dowell as a handle  suspended over the cross dowels.   First creating coves where one dowell meets tother,  usually in the small ones - and the handle is secure - while the ply piece can pivot slightly where the dowels are spiked to the plywood.  

This is a stiff longboard,  but it works good down on the straight runs of the keel.   I use it also for fairing the more rounded areas of the hull.   You can l;et it float over the work by holding it at the center,  or bear down at the ends to remove material.

Double sided carpet tape keeps the sanding belt material on  good enough to allow easy replacement.  Which you oughta do as soon as it looses its sharp.   The carpet tape should have the cloth interior (3M?) so you have something to grab on to when you strip it off the plywood.   It'll take wood off too!   But by then you merely replace the ply and the screws anyway.   Piece of cake.

Happy it came out so well.   Hosanna!  Ave Maria

[willie]

thanks for the votes of confidence. I have to say i really wasn't expecting it to be so rubberey--guess that's a word. kinda having second thoughts now. But guess we'll see. don't really think it will come off without a fight!

I don't know what this boat has been through in her life, but sighting down the keel there's several wowies, ins and outies, that aren't in the set of line drawings. of course they're pretty small scale, and the wowies are too. I'm thinking it's been that way for awhile..... and i'd like to get her sailing this summer. maybe. may be pushing things too. have a new shoe on the way, so we'll see.

so on this gel coat thing--
from what i've seen, i have the glass, then a greenish, gray layer that i assume is the gel coat, then red, then black, then the light blue nasty stuff, then black again. did i miss something? anyway, just wondering about the best way to get it up even, at least with the gel coat. brush on epoxy layers? it's built up today pretty fair with the old glass. just what is gel coat made out of? from what i see it's pretty thick. told ya i was new at this!:cool:

[ebb]

Sure, drill in from both sides, right?   You know where the holes go in and out.   They don't meet so good in the middle, sticking a bit in there will take charge so whatch it!   If you drill the pin holes with the shoe not permanently on, you can 'straighten' them out with a larger bit with the shoe off.   A pin will not drive thru a crooked hole,  it'll butt up against the inside of the fitting.    If you are a 5200 fan, a little space is ok.

I should have not put in all pins on 338 but put in one bolt - maybe squared one hole for a carriage bolt so a nut could be used for a grounding wire from a zinc.   Sometimes you can find 'jam nuts',  or grind the nut down so it doesn't stick out so much.

Don't know what I'm going to do.   Did argue once that if all underwater metals were the same on a boat  you didn't need to zinc.   But parked in a marina things are not simplistic like that.   So drilling and tapping a 1'4" machine screw into the shoe might be a solution.   I like the smooth look of the all pin installation.   If we have to spoil the hydrodynamics with zincs and fastenings then maybe they can  be as small and round as possible.


[let me ask this:  
The original bronze shoe on 338 was eaten away AND crusted with zinc on the same side as the zinc.   The other side was ok.  Who knows what different stages the shoe went thru over the decades!   This made a big impression on me and at the time asked the cognoscente of corrosion if they knew what was going on.   But there just are too many variables for a specific answer.  But  I'm wondering if there is any point in mounting two hockey-puck zincs on either side of the keel with separate wires to the shoe.   Balance things.   Must be over-reacting again!  
Crazy??]