Ave maria #350

[ebb]

A TV spot recently showed us how a suped-up Depression era moonshine Ford could carry a 1/2 ton of hootch in the trunk without lowering the fenders over the rear wheels.   Maybe you have a nautical version of a smuggler there.   Putting all the added weight   under the cockpit means there HAS to have been an equal weight up forward.   To the casual observor  the extra high waterline would appear normal when the boat was loaded for the run.

On that depressing readymix note,  I remember on the net a guy had to have access to his bilge (can't remember if it was for ballast or tanks) so he cut a hugh hole out of one side of his bottom.   His reasoning seemed sound,  but I bet he had a good time remaking the underside of his boat again!

If you did the dirty neat enuf,  you'ld epoxy the original panel right back on again,  no proplema,

[willie]

I'm almost afraid of what I'll find next.
Here's some better pics.  Did a little scrubbing. Jeez what a mess.
Thinking I shouldn't be telling all that's wrong, might decide I want to sell her someday!:mad:

[willie]

You can see the aft plywood form/dam in the top of photo. Bilge pump sitting just aft of it, you can't see it but it's there. follow the hose.
There are two factory lifting eyes, one just fwd of concrete, other more fwd. under other cutout. One more, then it's to the thinking chair. Or was it drinking chair...

[willie]

and one from up fwd. just for the hellof it.
Any other ideas for removal, other than Ebb's last resort? ha! that's a good one.
The dark spot in fwd cut out is the fwd. most eye for factory ballast.  The concrete starts back at the aft cutout, under the cross beam, floor.

[ebb]

Had a talk with Pedro here on the estate where we work.   He suggested a method you might try.

You drill holes strate down into the stone 4" apart   Then in each hole - which would probably be in line with a chunk you want to break loose - you place feathers and wedges.   The feathers are (3" long, about 1/2" wide)  1/2 rounds of hardened steel that are bent at the top.   If you held two feathers flat to flat you'ld have a 'Y'.   You put these in the hole and then the wedge.   You line up  feathers and wedges in each hole that you drilled to a line of the crack you want to make and tap LIGHTLY with a hammer until the piece breaks.

Pedro says you can crack concrete 3 feet deep and 20 feet long with this tool!!!   Sound familiar?   This is an ancient method of getting blocks from a quarry.  [The oldest method was probably to cut a groove, put in chips of burnt limestone and add water.   20X expansion.]

He then suggested you could lift pieces out with an expansion bolt in a suitable hole with a post tool or a come-along.   You just have to dislodge it out of the form, so to speak.   Rubber hammer on the hull outside??

Bosch hammer drill and proper sized bits for the proper sized hole.   Local concrete purveyors might have the feathers and wedges but there is a catalog by BONTOOL:
//www.bontool,com
they call it Bon Stone Splitting wedge,  comes as a 3 pc set (11-847-B6,  $7.25)   You'll need,  what,  4 sets?   You'll have to drill a 5/8" hole - that and the hammer-drill is a lotta height.   You can maybe shorten the bit or find a short one.

This is a "clean and quiet" method says Pedro (no banging with chisels and big hammers, or jack hammers either.

Any more questions he'll be happy to help out.

What do you think?

[willie]

Actually I was contemplating a couple sticks of ditching powder. Have some extra from blowing out some water holes last fall.

Your method sounds a little less painful to the old girl. Man, I'm still shaking my head.

I think there's room to get at the aft portion with drill, and maybe get enough chunks to get it out. However, I think there may be a couple rods that run through it fore and aft, as there's two nuts on the face of the 2x4. Would make sense to hold the form together. so that may present a problem. Back to the ditching powder? ha.
I have a big chain fall set up behind the boat, used to lift my 3000gal. tank on and off the freightliner, so it ought to work if I can get her backed in under it. Would work good for getting the outboard out too. Anyway, I'd like to do it without removing the cabin sole, it's in pretty good shape.

And I was able to lift the front edge with a pry bar, so it's movable. I'll bet it's close to 200 lbs. Will have to weigh it when it gets extracted.
Thanks for the help.

[ebb]

How about destroying the 2X4 'frame'  exposing the rebar or allthread, whatever.   Put a strongback across the seats or from the hatch opening and attach a come-along to the rebar.   Lift first to see if there are no fastenings buried that were driven into the lead.   That jerk wouldn't have been that smart.   Lift and try to drag it aft. .   It should loosen immediately,   You may have to sacrifice a piece of the sole, or all of it,  but essentially it's just a piece of plywood with a piece of 1/4" teak veneered plywood over.   No framing,   Just slathering.

[Tony G]

Willie
From the pics you posted I don't know how you'd get it out without; 1)removing part of the the sole or B)busting the concrete into velveta box sized chunks.  (Spam can sized chunks naturally would work also)  This one is a real b!#@%.  Feathers and wedges would work if you had access to the top.  If you could lift it even 1/2" and slide some ply scraps or absorbing shims of some sort under it you could even buy a little freedom on the sides as it lifts out of the taper of the bilge.  Sometimes its best to let things sit for a while and work on another boat project until it hits you or just drives you mad:D 200 pound!  Must be alot bigger than I thought.  Tony G

[ebb]

someone correct me if I'm wrong.   The area in question with willie's conumdrum has the step up where the ladder is and the cabin sole.

Except for the riser you have two pieces of plywood that were merely pasted in with saturated matt when the boat was assembled.   Thats all there is.   If there's a diesel or an A bomb there will be the engine logs and engine gear.   But all you have to remove is the two pieces of original plywood decking.  That is what is original,  the rest is added by the DFO.   (Dreaded Former Owner)

That can be easily done with a Dremel tool and a carbide grit blade.   And a yellow-handle chisel.   Tedious, dusty, but you can cut the pieces out so that you can tab them right back in again.   That will clear the way to lifting the concrete right out.

The 1/4" teak veneer ply in 338 was glued to the 3/4" sole with black rubber mastic.   It was not easy to remove.   But you need to remove it (completely or in a two inch strip around the edge)  to access the tabbing that holds the deck in place.   Like all  ply in the boat it is attached 'dry' to the hull.   That is,  the unsealed ply is laid in place and tabbed on one side only.   Usually the top side.  Spanning the gap of the square cut ply and the angled hull.   Sometimes the frp is pretty thick  but once you cut it the piece is free.

The  cabin sole in 338 went under the step up at the doorway to the V-berth.   Once you take the 1/4" stuff off you'll see it goes under  an inch or too.  I would just ignore it as a problem and cut the deck anywhere back of that where convenient.  The 3/4" is plenty strong in so narrow a span to just fit it back with some goop in the join.   (When your new teak and holly sole goes down,  you'll never know!)   Of course you could cut the sole between the two access hatches.

When 338 first got me,  it took me awhile to get over the sacrosanc feeling that I was disturbing an antique and a great designer's temple.   The interior of 338 was slapped together in a business-like way quick and dirty - I finally realized that anything I did was going to be an upgrade or an enhancement!

Getting that stupid concrete out is a VAST improvement.
Use the setee tops as a datum point for measurements to get the sole back in place.   338 is not waterline level where I'm sitting in the yard,  so  I've assumed the seats are level and taken all measurements and levels from them.       Assume is the mother of all foulups.


Doctor,  scalpel please...

[marymandara]

...and by all means, hurry!
Poor. #350. I ate a whole brick of cheese once and know how she must feel :eek:

[willie]

Hey, the Skipper Jr. pointed out a problem he has with his boat this morning. So we're running late on 350. Thought you guys might be able to help. I told him sand it down, then epoxy barrier coat. Wadda ya think?

[marymandara]

You know, Ebb-ster does have a point. That pic I have from Milton Thresher with the boat at mooring? She's awful high in the bow, lots of bottom paint showing.

This same boat was for sale by some old man years ago and a friend of mine gave it the cursory survey at that time for a girl he was...well, for a gal who was interested in buying it. Anyway, I don't think Fitz would have missed the cement. I guess he could have, but he's pretty sharp on that.

This is a curious situation. Also, for those who do not know, Friday Harbor is a US Customs port of entry. Real close to the US-Canadian border...and for those who might not know, my neighbors to the north have a rather renouned agricultural product which is produced for export.

What's she smell like up under the v-berth, Willie?:rolleyes:

[willie]

JEEZ DAVE,

I haven't dug around much in that end yet!! Other than the bag of anchor chain, don't know. There's still a water tank in there, but the deck fill ain't hooked up. No hose. Now I'm curious. Maybe you ought to head that Honda south and we'll have a look! Throw an Ariel party!

Oh, bring the sawzall.

[marymandara]

I'm thinking that just on the off chance that Ebb and I might both be at least partially correct, and since 350 has no name, we should encourage him to name her MARY JANE. Show of hands?

[willie]

Jr. and I put in a good day removing the tumor. I think it's a record.