ALTERNATIVE MAINSHEET CONTROL?

[ebb]

Mike, ok, ok, I takes yor eye as a goodun.  Is the traveler dispensable?

Can a cruising Ariel go with blocks on the quarters and a double on the boom?

I have no particular feeling for the traveler unless it is going to increase my speed by at least a knot and a half.
What do you say,  Mike?

OK, what about a gallows for the boom?  Gallows means to me attachments for the tent and the bimini.  Of course ebb's gallows is as tall as he is (can't 'ave his feet dragging on the deck...)  I'd LIKE the gallows AND/OR an A-FRAME of some sort in the back of the cockpit to grab on to.  Aesthetics be damned.  Or is there a better way?  What is the better way?

My intent is to live on the boat, rather than endure once a month bouy bashing.  ALL cruising live-aboards look like compacted jungle jims, especially the aft end  - what alternatives does tiny 338 have?  I want to keep her as clean and light as possible.   But I have sinned, yea, yea, I have sinned!

Still, that ComPac 21 is very simple and tidy..
AND a Perfect Solution for the mainsheet on that boat.
Hunter does NOT come to mind when I look at THAT boat.
And the Eclipse, itself, looks like its heritage is closer to an actual sailboat than a gelcoat showboat nightmare with its traveler in the air!

SO, IF
Mike agrees to a boom gallows than why not a gollows frame that is braced into an A-frame and made out of smaller pipe?  And then, why not put the traveler up there and run the sheet to the front of the cockpit from the mast?  Anything BETTER then that?

[eric (deceased)]

a mid evil device used in barbaric death sentences.I remeber a simple clip hanging(no pun) from a back stay.gets caught in the boom lift at the worst time

[tha3rdman]

I really like the thought of having the main on the cabin top, no more sheet wrapped around the tiller yolk. As for the traveler, I think I will forgo that for the same reason as ebb, a tenth of a knot really doesnt appeal to me unless theres a travler benifit I'm missing.

Ebb, as of current, 97 has had the original cleet removed and a double block mounted there and a double on the boom, both have beckets though i used one becket as a sheeve, (schafer beckets are heavy and roll especially the 705 series). Where the old blocks on the quarter s where I put a harken cam cleet on each.

[ebb]

Evidently one of the boats in the Volvo race ING Brunel has no traveler.

ING Brunel's Mainsheet - Boat Design Forums [google]
boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10208

And there is an essay by Powlas from Good Old Boat:

Good Old Boat: Vang/Preventer - A Fast, Efficient Safety Device by... [google]
//www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/vangprevent.htm

that I think uses two preventers instead of a traveler for main control along with a good explanation of why we have to have a bloody traveler, anyway.


[Want to further discussion on this subject!]

[eric (deceased)]

like I said before.you can have a 2000 dollar bhote with 25,000 dollars in upgrades and gear.you still got a bhote thats 25 feet 7 inches long.a darn goodn' at that so k.i.s.s.In fact it is my opinion that the only need for winches on an ariel is for the main and jib halyards.a working jib  of this size (in my opinion) needs only jamcleats.(anna' paira' work gloves.) HEAVE HO YEE SCURVY KNAVES!!!! an'ifyaz' put up a big foresail it better not be so windy to where ya needa' winch.in all my miles I barely put up a genny EVER..nuttinz' more useful than a good set of workin'jibs--an' with reef points at that.it aint all funnan' games I tellya---when ya feel that mast begin to pump the hull---at 3am---getyerz' asses up thar' an' shorten sail NOW .DONT BOTHER TO HEAD UP-!!!!--THIS IS THE REAL WORLD-!!!!(its ok to let it luff alittle)--ever reef the main from the lee side??? while still under way???at 3am??? I dont even slow down fer a g-d damm fish on!!!

[tha3rdman]

So I'm confused, is the 2 sets of blocks on either side of that diagram just Preventer/vang or are they used for sheets also?

[ebb]

OK, I'm for simplicity, also.
The point of the traveler is to ease the main to leeward when the wind gets up without having to loosen the mainsheet.  
Without a traveler: when the wind strengthens the main is unsheeted allowing the boom to rise and move to leeward which affects the sail shape by putting more curve in the leech.
A vang can be used to hold the boom down with or without a traveler.  But it is more dangerous to use a vang without the traveler because huge loads could develop at the midboom point that might fold the boom unintentionally.
Modern hi-tech roller-bearing travelers on T-track can be moved easily under load with control lines in blocks - allowing sailtrim (moving the boom to leeward) without undoing the mainsheet.
Can it be argued that this is a safety feature?

The best place for a traveler (without arguement) in terms of sail-shape control is at the aft end of the cockpit.  Because that is where the aft end of the boom is.  In terms of fathoms of frikkin line on the cockpit floor and wrapped around the tiller it's a bit crackers.

It could be argued that a boom-high traveler frame that leads the mainsheet forward to the mast and back to the cabin top...And would arrange the traveler block controls on the uprights of the frame  elliminating most of the tangle under foot...is an improvement.  

Perhaps just too darn mo-dern for SOME traditionalists.  At some point in the last 40 year we decided after-market stern pushpits were ok to have.  Hunter pipe aesthetic is a problem.  Is there a compromise?

Another point is just HOW important IS a traveler  for satisfying control of the main on an A/C?  Could sail with a loosened vang and just tighten it when needed.  Or do I mean vicerversa?  And remember to loosen it each time tacking!  Maybe that's a reason for rigging double vangs? (Not that I Got It, yet :confused: )  

The traveler seems to only do one thing, right? Ease the main to leeward without moving the mainsheet - what else is the traveler used for?

IS a traveler worth all the fuss?
(this is NOT a rhetorical question!)
...........................................................................................................................................................................................................
later EDIT. Travelers belong to the racers where tweeking is the game. Separate tackles to the end of the boom from the quarters is an easy
solution for the cruiser.  The tackles do not share a single block on the boom.  Each is separate.  This will allow more control of the boom by the option of hauling and/or releasing the sheet on either the weather or lee side.... acting somewhat like the travelor....but with more line underfoot!

[tha3rdman]

Ebb and all,

   Assuming that an individual had permission from the one with the money, to do such a hunter like thing, what would you use?  I'm thinking 1" o.d. with .125, asumming thats heavy enough what grade SS would be recommended I realize 316 is better in a chloride enviroment (ie NaCl) but 304 is stronger. Also what is the real difference between tubing and pipe, one yard quoted me 18.95/ft fot 1" od .125 wall, where another yard quoted me pipe at 5/ft for 304 and 8/ft for 316.

And anyone have a TIG i could borrow? I cant stick to save my life.

[Mike Goodwin]

Pipe is stronger than tubing and heavier .