Outboard Discussions

[Howard]

//www.torqeedo.com/uploads/media/boot_duesseldorf_2006_english_05.pdf


They say it will push a 6500lber for close to 30 hrs on two twelve volt batteries. Available online now for $2200 +/-. It weighs 25 lbs and breaks down into a waterproof case. There is a smaller one for dinghies where the battery is integral.  

I am very interested in this and just wondered if anyone had seen/tested these.

[ebb]

Hey Howard, the site doesn't come up.
Sounds real interesting!

[Howard]

Sorry, I changed the link, try again.
It now points to their full line of stuff.

[ebb]

uses rechargable 24v lithium manganese batteries.
Maybe the OB shows up at the boatshow this year?
It's not new that this type battery chemistry is used in high torque situations (like the Milwaukee 18v cordless line).  But in this case we'd have to buy the whole kit from the manufacturer. (?)  Don't know that these batteries even exist for this application here.  Who makes them?
What life do they have?
Don't know anything about 24v!
Do they have to have a smart charger for the batteries?
How much?
Can the boat be run on them?
Great if it works.  Need to know more.
How much (for no fumes, no explosion danger, no polution, no unfixable/away-from-the-shop modern OB probs) will the trade off cost?

Have you checked out the 'cruiser' 800 model?  All I see is a shaft and a tiller.  No whirly-johnny box between the tiller and the shaft to make it work....?

[Howard]

The Cruiser is the big one which can use any combination to reach 24v. (6x4, 12x2) They do have battery systems, but, from what I've heard, you do not have to use them.The 800 has an integral battery that recharges off a regular power outlet.

Variable F-R on same throttle, or remote placement. No need to fire up the motor as it is always ready to go. Sounds like a 40 watt panel and this in my climate would be the peach.

[ebb]

At 27# the 'cruiser' is unbeatable!
338's Yamaha 8-4 is over 110#! Add the gas and a battery to that!
But you'd have to have at least two dedicated batteries for the electric.
They should post some videos on their site.  Immediately.

And another thing: A Whole Lot Less Noise.
(Maybe you can hear the batteries draining.)

Maybe you need a Yamaha generator to keep it charged.
Can this be too much a good thing?  
What are the pros and cons here?

I'm sceptical because we've had electric boats for decades.  The electric outboard was invented in the 1880's in France.  What took so long to get to Germany?
Ray Electrocat
//www.rayeo.com
has a 26' pontoon boat powered by
16 (ahem, SIXTEEN) Exide GC V bats
requiring TWO 25amp chargers.... (which you plug in overnight back at the dock, no doubt.  And an overnight charge might not be enough.)
The motor doesn't generate more than 5hp on a 60v(!!!!) system.*
and the boat "comes with a rotating captain's seat."

This may be quiet power, but it'd be real quiet without enough juice.
The problem with electric power has always been the number and weight of batteries needed for a decent amount of time running.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
This edit at a later date (1/9/07)
I guess I'm getting punchy: There is a short paragraph in Boatbuilder magazine for Jan/Feb introducing the 2hp Torqueedo(sic) and pointing out that what we're looking at, in the house photo, is the lith/man. battery mounted on top of the unit.  It is a unique machine in that the whole thing can be disassembled and folded into a knapsack.  The bigger one  has the battery options.  Takes me awhile.
The rated range for the 'cruise' is (140km/h) 76 nmph on two 220amp 12v bats. Don't know if conversion is correct - or how it relates to pushing an A/C thru a chop.  Cruising with this electric OB sure will require extra bats and a super off-grid charger.  
What do you think about the Torgeedo's?
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
* a visit to the >ray< site above is almost like going to another country where only fresh water and lakes exist.  All the accessory equipment has strange names.  Maybe a comparison can be made between the motors and power needed.  It isn't clear to me what advantages the cruise model Torgeedo has over any other electric OB - except that it is aimed at the sailboat market.  I guess.  (I find the Torgeedo site uninformative and unfriendly.  Really peculiar if you are trying to sell something.  And google has never heard of these folks!)
5hp isn't enough power for any  sailboat that has to be large enough to carry enough support batteries, imco.  And if you're thinking solar for recharge you'll need 1/2 a football field for the array.  Check out the solar page there.

As usual tho this is all an opinion.
Just throwing this stuff out here, in hopes that some informed human will illuminate this subject for us.
Cruising without the smell of gas and EXHAUST - and the noise and vibration of the motor - would be FANTASTIC.

[Howard]

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/265318/10001/820/478/10

Here it is from WasteMarine.

[MRH]

I powered my Commander with a 9.9 hp 2 cycle Suzuki from 1988 through 2004. I thought I needed 9.9 hp because the tides outside of Lake Tashmoo on the Vineyard run 3+ knots. However, when it was time to repower in 2005, I wanted a 4 stroke for cleaner operation and couldn't find a 9.9 hp 4 stroke which would fit in the well.

I followed the advice of several posts on this site and repowered with a 6 hp Nissan 4 stroke. The 6 hp Nissan is perfectly adequate motoring against the 3 knot tide, if not quite as fast as the 9.9 Suzuki. In slack tide or opposing a lighter tide, the 6 hp Nissan is as effective as the 9.9 Suzuki.

The 6 hp Nissan is about 25 lbs. lighter than the 9.9 Suzuki, making it much easier to remove from the well, and is noticably more economical than the 2 stroke Suzuki. Its possible to fill two six gallon tanks and go through a whole season without refueling. And I don't miss the 2 stroke smoke.

The Nissan can also be swiveled 180 degrees to provide optimal reverse thrust. It also has an attachment which allows you to pull the starter cord up vertically instead of out horizontally - althought this is a preference rather than a clear benefit.

Features that the 6hp Nissan lacks include an electric starter and a rectifier to charge the battery.

MRH

[Howard]

(I find the Torgeedo site uninformative and unfriendly.  Really peculiar if you are trying to sell something.  And google has never heard of these folks!)

Yeah, the website is obviously a computer based translation which loses some of that famous German sense of humour.
:rolleyes:

The product is only two months old so that may explain the dearth of google entries.

It is the cost and weight/power that are different from previous incarnations IMO.

Probably could be used with a combination of a solar panel and the KISS wind generator from what I see on their site. Ah the freedom!!!

[Robert Lemasters]

The Nissan 6 hp 4 stroke is all that I that have needed for my ol' Commander. It pushes the boat at hull speed, and I have had no trouble going against the tides and winds so far. The light weight (55 or so lbs.) is a plus at my age. Good fuel economy (about 1/2 gal. hr near hull speed) is also a plus. The only problem that I have had is the pot metal handles/leavers on the threaded screw thing-a-ma-jigs for attaching the motor to the transom. I broke one of the handle things with pliers trying to untighten them last year after a sail( very little pressure and one broke). The threads ,even though I keep them lubed with grease etc. corrode fast here in this salt water envirionment. Still this Nissan is a great little motor for what I payed for it four years ago. I also like the fact that I do not have to mix oil with the gas and there is no oil slick in the water when running. Oh, and it dosn't take any time at all getting it ready for the season, replacing the oil in the bottom unit and changing the oil;although, I have yet to change the water pump impeller which someone at the yard said should be inspected and or replace every year as it is made of some kind of rubber and may degrade even if not used all that much. One issue or dislike of mine is that it is not made in the USA but what is these days.I can't help but wonder why all of the big new sailboats have sail drives with all of the maintenance, leaking and corrosion problems. They are like having the bottom unit of an outboard motor in salt water all of the time...waiting for crab pots lines and whatever else that they strike to damage them. They don't make sense at all.

[c_amos]

The Nissan 6 hp 4 stroke is all that I that have needed for my ol' Commander.

  Does the nissan / tomatsu not have the optional rectifier kit abailable?  I have one on my Yahaha 6, and it is nice to have.

[Robert Lemasters]

Yes, I suppose that I could recharge my batteries or provide power for my running lights with the motor running, that is another good feature with this motor. I have never had the need to do so, I have never run down my batteries. I have two deep cycle batteries that are recharged with a solor panel. There is an diesel motor I could get , If I wanted it (25Hp)for my Commander but the Nissan is all that I need. I would give it some real thought (the work and time) if I could get a small Yanmar cheap. I may with help, if I have the time and money and "she -who-must- be -obeyed's" ok, when I pull my Pearson 26, look into putting in that diesel. The 26 Pearson had a Merc 9.9 hp 4 stroke, and the person who I bought it from said that the boat needed that much hp to maintain headway when he brought the boat here (against moderate wind and tide).

[c_amos]

The 26 Pearson had a Merc 9.9 hp 4 stroke, and the person who I bought it from said that the boat needed that much hp to maintain headway when he brought the boat here (against moderate wind and tide).

  That does not seem to make much sense to me.  The P-26 is a lighter boat. :confused:
 
  Maybe it cavitates being hung off of the transom vice being in a well?

[Howard]

If you get the x-tra long shaft (25") it comes with a rectifier for charging for an extra 100 bucks. I have been looking around for a spare as I have a Honda 9.9
4 stroke that has charging capability, but weighs a ton.

I have to switch over when I use my "shoal" draft boat for low tides here. It is a hard decked cat (Combo Cat - sail + outboard) that draws about 14" and gets going pretty quick.

[Robert Lemasters]

c-amos... Maybe the prop pitch on the Merc 9.9 had something to do with it. I have two props for my Nissan, I have the stock prop for a spare and another prop that I had the pitch changed at the shop(per Micheal Goodwin). The motor with the stock prop had about 1/4 or more throttle that did nothing, with the new pitch prop most of the throttle is now used for forward motion. The 26 Pearson is lighter, wider and higher, plus it is a fin keel, what that has to do with it all, I'm not sure.I will be taking the fellow's advice and use a 9.9 Hp motor, this fellow has three sailboats and has been sailing for 40 some years. He motored the 26 here, some 30 miles in a rain storm against an outgoing tide most of the way. I moved the boat when I bought it with the 9.9, I thought the motor had pleanty of power, but hull speed is hull speed. I like to think of prop pitch this way, like the threads on a screw,the more turns per inch...well you know.:confused: