Mast step saga

[commanderpete]

Any thoughts on using a halyard organizer plate between the mast step and the bottom of the mast?

Something like one of these

http://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat1ID=40&cat1Name=Hardware&familyID=19&familyName=Halyard+Organizer+Plates

I think I've seen a boat or two with them around here.

The way my halyards are set up now, I can't use the cabintop winches without getting riding turns. I'd like to bring the lines down and over. Something like on this boat.

Any thoughts appreciated

[Tony G]

CPete,

I really hope something exactly like that works!  Initially I had some concern about adding a 3/16" to 1/4" shim to the bottom of the mast.  Maybe the mast will fly out of it's step or something....then I realized that was a stupid thought.  It seems to be a safer alternative than drilling more holes in the mast and attaching eyestraps and padeyes.

I'm sure you're planning to be in the water at the very begining of the season so you will have finished the job before I even get started.  Let me know how it works.

Thanks, Tony G

[ebb]

Very strong, very secure no baloney hinge has bent up sides with shackle holes like your pic.  Two 1/4" plates with 1/2" pin.   Gives you the option of lowering the mast yerself forward using the boom onto the pulpit.  Or back, of course - your choice.  $200.   Maybe he sells just the top part for half that.

You're going to have to see if you can get the mast base insert out of the mast extrusion to attach it to any new plate.   Good luck.

[Bill]

A couple of local Ariel fleet boats have added the organizer plates.  Seem to work just fine.  Others have located blocks on the mast such that the various lines come off level with the cabin top.

[commanderpete]

I think the halyard cheekblock arrangement on the Commander is worse than that on the Ariel, which has a taller cabin top.

Ariel:
http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1843&stc=1

Commander:
http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1792&stc=1

A prior owner of my boat had actually repositioned the cheekblocks toward the front of the mast, so the halyard would come off the block at a better angle.

It still wasn't so good, and the block is now bent and the sheave cracked from hard use.

If I bought a halyard organizer plate I would have to cut out a rectangle for the casting at the base of the mast. Then I would need to think about bolting the plate to the mast step.

Maybe I could fashion my own plate to go UNDERNEATH the mast step. Get a small sheet of proper stainless steel, bend the ends somehow and drill some holes. The same bolts that secure the mast step would go through the plate. Another hole in the center for the mast wires.

This would bring the blocks down even closer to the deck.

I'm hoping to fix one problem and gain flexibility for adding additional lines run back to the cockpit.

I have thought about a tabernackle hinge ebb. I'm just not sure I can wrap my brain around the various considerations involved.

These projects have a way of growing......

[ebb]

Rigrite has things called deck collars.   NG-60 or related might stand outside your mast pad.  Seem to have blocks on studs that stand up in holes in the collar.   Or on the pad with a little organisation.  
Don't know where the beam is  in your boat or how many turning blocks you need,  wouldn't eyebolts work?   Or made double turning blocks.  
Schaefer makes mast mount halyard 'lift' turning blocks that don't look too cheeky to me.

Have you run into

//www.clickbert.com/Fboat/techtip/linesaft.html

It is a Folkboat Marieholm,  looks just about like your deck.  Go to the Clickbert thingy.  Find Folkboats Around the World.  Find Halyards Led Aft.
Ther-Yar.  Totally useless photo - some of the werds might be usefull.

[commanderpete]

Thanks ebb. Here's that link again

http://www.clickbert.com/IFboat/techtips/linesaft.html

I've got to mull this over some.

I like the deck collar. Has anybody ever identified the make and model of the mast for our boats? The identity of the boom section also remains a mystery.

Here's a deck collar, down towards the bottom of the page

http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Isomat_Spars/Isomat_Masts/NG60_mast.html#Deck%20Collars,%20Mast%20Boots%20and%20Hardware

[Bill]

"Has anybody ever identified the make and model of the mast for our boats?  The identity of the boom section also remains a mystery."  

Check the appendix to the manual.  You will find Pearson's tech drawings of the mast and boom cross sections on pages 162 and 150.  Die owner was Pearson . . .

[ebb]

Checkout the bluetooth at the bottom of the Fboat page: 'Mastfot och skotbank'.  There are some great linesaft shots over there.

Folkboats are close cousins,  they are still in production, aren't they?  Creg Curtis makes it pretty easy to visualize what he's talking about,  especially with the Dutch pictures.   He used an upturned plate with turning block holes under his mast.

Don't know nuttin 'bout this -  but appears that splitting the angle(s) where ever a line has to turn is the way to decrease friction.   Like spreaders split the angle.  Laying out lines aft to reduce friction might take a little fiddling.

There's a rail under portrait of Fboat 377 on S.F.Bay.   Her name is 'Grace'  And that is what it is!

[Bill]

Check out the halyard organizer plate installation on A #100 beginning with post #7 at:

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=691

See also posts 8, 24 & 27.  

I assume that a metal shop could drill the plate for the mast base fasteners and cut a slot to match the key on the bottom of the mast.

[willie]

Hey Pete,
Here's what i did. Not to complex, and works great. Garhauer, and worth it if you're gonna  take the mast down. I have a couple blocks attached for running halyards back to control central. It's not hard to install, just have to get the holes drilled right. Getting the fitting out of the mast was the biggest headache. I cut the key off with sawzall, drilled holes to match top plate, and bolted her in. I think this may be in another thread somewhere, oh well.
I like having all the holes in the plate for attaching things. Like kids....lol

Found the thread, here ya go...(roll down to one photo of mine, i'll try to find some more)

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=778

[commanderpete]

Thanks guys. I'm getting inspired. I just need to devote some of my vast mechanical aptitude to the project.

I remember the last time I had to drill some holes through stainless steel. I went out and bought a new metal cutting bit. I started drilling away. Man, that steel is hard! I'm drilling and drilling, making little progress. Used some oil to lubricate the bit. Its smoking away. Finally, after about fifteen minutes, I muscled a hole through. Started on the next one...Jeez, this job is going to take all day.

Went back to the hardware store "Give me your finest metal cutting bit" Says I, "The last one you sold me is crap."  

Got back home and put the new bit in the drill. It was then I realized that I had been running the drill in reverse instead of forward.

Job went much more smoothly after that.

[Ed Ekers]

Hey Pete,
Thought I would chime in here. We have a mast base plate on Pathfinder. It looks a lot like the others we see. If there was one thing I would do different it would be to put ears on all four sides. I may not need all the holes but it gives me options. Things like the spinnaker foreguy, main cunningham, boom vang, and a place that I could attach halyards that would be neat and clean when in port. I could come up with others but I think you get the idea.

What ever you end up with I am sure you will appreciate have the base plate.

HAPPY NEW YEAR ! .....ed

[ebb]

Ed,
Hadn't thought that the rigid vang could attach to a loop or bracket on the back of the mast foot plate.   It would increase the angle to the boom, taking it off the mast.   Probably   make it that much easier to adjust.

A piece of rod could be bent in a flat or round top with spread out legs that would be easy to weld at the correct leading angle onto the plate.

Am I reading this right?   Is this viable at all?

My guess is that another good reason for the rigid vang is that it's extra helpful in immobilizing the boom when lowering/raising the stick.  If it's a hinge.

[John]

Now y'all have me really confooseled.  The base casting, nicely rotted (corroded) into the base of my mast, has two lugs fore and aft, to locate the base into the decktop step.  I thought that the step was the same on both Ariel and Commanders?  If a plate was drilled to allow for the two bolts and the wire access, then it could go between the step and deck.  Unless the step has been modified to function as a tabernacle, or the plate had substantial cutouts, I don't see how it could go between the step and mast.  Could it (the plate) be trapped by the lugs and just sit there? without any fastening?  Or just fastened to the base casting.   Countersunk of course.  Does Garhaurer make such a mast plate???  hmmm

Happy New Year

And say a prayer for those both lost and found in Asia