#426 Refurb/Rework Thread

[mrgnstrn]

Combining 2 workdays into 1 here.



Also, does anyone know where the most efficient place to mount the bilge pump is? Mine is under the rear-most removable panel on the floor of my main cabin, but I'm not sure if it's actually at the "lowest point" of the bilge.

JurisG,

There is a lengthy discussion of bilge pumps over in this thread:
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=105&highlight=bilge+pump

When I had A#3, there was an access plate under sink cabinetry that led to the way-back-way-deep part of the bilge.  I mounted a small bilge pump on a piece of angle-aluminum and stuck it in the hole.  That way I could get the darned thing out when it was time ti fix it.

However, there are some important differences:

1.You have an engine where I had an empty space (I had the O/B version)
2.You likely don't have any kind of panel, but also can't likely see what's back there because the engine is in the way.  

You need a very small, very flexible 6 year old gymnast to climb back there and tell you what's going on.

Or put the bilge pump in the best place you can and call it a day!

[ebb]

Don't see how any of you guys with an inboard can get by without an access plate or flush hatch in the cockpit deck?  
Wouldn't it be easier and maybe safer too if you had access to the back of the engine and the stuffing box/stern tube?

You'd have to have something pretty sturdy, don't know that the usual plastic plates would work.  I think Triton Tim ended up with a Bomar$$$ something after disappointment with a Temptress brand hatch.

It's another potential hole in the boat, and after Ed's recent story about taking green water (filling the cockpit) over the stern on a day sail, it may  take some study as to what will work best in the Ariel cockpit.

What's the thinking on this?


[In remodeling the interior of littlegull,  one of my big paranoia exercises is to make sure that every section of the hull has access.
Want to stuff a pillow in any hole, or at least FEEL where the ocean's coming in.
 I went overboard and got a huge commercial s.s. flush hatch for the cockpit, but I don't like the idea of leaks, constant leaks, and stainless that will become a problem because access thru the cockpit deck was POSSIBLE!  
Want a smaller more managable hatch because I know access from under the bridge deck (littlegull is an OB Ariel)  will always be a problem.
 Forget who it was now, but somebody here had their rudder jammed right thru the bottom making a hole.
 Be great to have TOP access to the rudder tube, etc.]

So there's a couple good reasons for a cockpit deck hatch.

[JurisG]

Thanks for the input, all.

Is there a section in the manual for replacing the stuffing and hose? I don't have it in front of me, but I also don't remember seeing it when I flipped through.

Also, I was under the impression that replacing the whole shaft was a major headache. I mean, you have to wrangle in behind the atomic 4 to do it, right? I'm not even sure how to get in there yet.

[mbd]

Here's a link to a great web site that covers it: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box

[ebb]

Yer right Mike, that is a great site!
It's a perfect example of how to present a tip on a specialized subject.
As the testimonials prove, it may be no big deal for somebody who's done it a few times,
but as a  mystery for a first timer this is text book, as they say
Or I'd bet, a whole lot more practical and patient than any text book can be.
WONDERFUL CLEAR PHOTOS.
REVEALING EXPLANATIONS.

See comments for a further tip on removing flax.
Also click Tree View for more How-To
I think I've seen this guy's logic used on anchor selection. Viz the Supreme.

(almost wish I had an inboard...)

[JurisG]

That site looks like an excellent start when I'm in there - but my question is ariel-specific. How do I actually get at it? Do I go in behind the motor? Rear Hatch?

I've seen the old salts at the boat yard taking a jig saw to their hulls, taking out a square piece, doing the job, and re-glassing it. Is this what I'm in for?

[mbd]

Cockpit lockers. When I got my boat I had a leaking stern tube. After a few times in and out of the lockers, I got to the point very quickly that I saw this as a necessary and desirable modification:

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?p=10014#post10014

[ebb]

Mike,
dang! Forgot that install of yours.
Altho the Bomar part must have stuck.
So it's a "SLAM" hatch....How's that worked out for you?

LEAKS?
I'd worry that I couldn't cinch it down...haven't seen the hatch.
[Ed Ekers "getting wet" story is going to stick with me a  L O N G  time:eek:]
Does fit perfect., that's magnificent access back there!
Can you work on it? Strong enuf, as in my case, to rest the OB on it?  That kind of thing.  I'm NOW going to look into it seriously.


One thing for certain your cockpit floor is a lot sturdier than A338's.
Tim's portrait holding that hefty chunk of cockpit is impressive.
A338 has no balsa core.
It's just a layer of glass.
A lot of play in the floor even with the ply stiffeners Pearson pasted underneath with matt.  Might have to epoxy in a wood frame for extra rigidity to support such a big hole.

Thanks for the reminder!!

[mbd]

The hatch has been great, I use it all the time to check on things down there. Leaking had been a problem after the initial installation because of the camber of the cockpit floor. When Tim was doing the deck work on A-414, one of the things I asked him to do was build up a level lip so the hatch could sit flat. The leak has now been reduced to a "nuisance" at worst, but I haven't verified if it's even leaking at all.

As for strength, it flexes a little when you're standing in the middle, but I have never been worried about it's durability - and obviously, it's continuously underfoot and being stood upon.

All things being equal, if I had the bucks, I'd probably spring for one of the aluminum hatches, though I understand they can get warm in the sun, but they're virtually bullet proof.

A side note: I'm also planning to add a cockpit grate someday, in addition to keeping your feet dry and looking nice, it will also add more support to the hatch. You won't even know it's there.

[JurisG]

Sorry for the lack of updates; I sent my phone for a swim in the bilge and lost all the pics of our progress!

In any case, attached to this post you will find pictures of how I have dealt with my broken prop shaft. The bearing had no play, and I spoke with the mechanic who has done all of the work on #426, and he said he just did the stuffing 2 years ago - he recommended I put it in the water and run it this year because it looked good. Therefore, I decided to put a pin through the prop and shaft after slowly drilling through it, peen it over, and cover it with JBweld. I also filled in the void left by the sheared prop shaft.

I also want to add that I cleared all the stuff out of my side compartments in the cockpit, and can now "access" the back of the engine, stuffing box, etc. BUT, I simply can't wiggle my 6'5" frame in there. Also, I'm not sure an access hatch would do much for me since my gas tank is right where I would want to put it. Every time I want to use the hatch, I would have to remove the gas tank and move it to the side. MAYBE a project for next year. For the time being, I have a very good mechanic in the South Shore, Massachusetts area, who is experienced at wiggling into the cockpit compartments and knows the Atomic 4 in and out. Anyone who is interested can contact me for his information. To get it started, we needed to do new points & condenser, and a new fuel filter, along with a new battery.

I purchased some new hardware to put my rudder back together from Jamestown Distributors (//www.jamestowndistributors.com) and cleaned up the old stuff with a grinder for what I couldn't find. Jamestown has a vast selection of brass and silicon bronze hardware. I also purchased some fiberglass supplies from them. The rudder steps I've gone through so far are:
1) Remove the rudder from the brass shaft (see previous post in this thread). Leave the prop alone unless absolutely necessary!
2) Strip the paint off; sand it down; Take out all possible hardware, but leave the pins in place, holding the 3 planks more or less together.
3) Clean up the hardware, buy new pieces for whatever needs replacement.
4) Take a dremel to any rot (cutting wheel, sanding attachment, grinder are all useful) especially between the planks.
5) Blow out the stuff leftover between the planks with pressurized Air.
6) Trace the rudder on cardboard with sharpie, marking the spots where the holes for hardware are (to be filled with Marine Tex).

The next steps I think I will be taking are:
7) Put the hardware back together
Add some countersunk stainless steel straps to reinforce the planks and hardware
9) Do a few layers of fiberglass
10) Use the tracing made in step (6) to cut out the holes for Marine Tex
11) Do the Marine Tex and then Re-Glass over the holes
12) Dremel away and put her back on. Slap some bottom paint on with the rest of the bottom.

We have also been attacking the Teak with a rotary sander because someone put Varnish over it. We are doing it over with many layers of cleaner, brightener, and Teak Oil.

I'm hoping to have her in the water by July. Does anyone have any leads on some kind of reference material for doing the rigging? Is there a guide out there somewhere? I've helped to rig up a Catalina before, but never a Pearson.

Hopefully I'll be back soon with some finished rudder pics!

[mbd]

I don't know - I wouldn't feel at all comfortable relying on just a pin to hold your prop on, not to mention the balance of the whole assembly.  Be really careful when you put her into reverse! That prop has a lot of boat and  displacement to pull when turning that direction - I can just imagine your prop spinning itself right off the shaft...   :eek:  

I sincerely hope I'm being a Nervous Nilly and am just plain wrong, but yikes!

[JurisG]

I would agree with you, except that I know from experience that the prop is seized on to the shaft. I spent 2 days with MAPP gas, brass punches, mallets, prop pullers, etc trying to get that thing off. Trust me, it's not going anywhere. The pin was just to make me feel better about it, and if it spins off - well hey, there's always a sail to get me home!

[mbd]

If it spins off, most likely you'll be trying to stop the boat or back out somewhere and your sails won't be much use to you at the moment.

Boy, I hope you're right. With my luck, I'd have been just one whack from the bloody thing popping right off the shaft.  

BTW, your work list is quite impressive! I'm sitting here wondering how in the world I'm going to make my upcoming launch date in one week!

[JurisG]

Some rudder updates -

I've stripped all of the bottom paint off and taken a sander to it. I also took a dremel to the spots that were looking a little rotty, although the meat of it is looking good. I then clamped the three planks together (the only hardware still left in there are the pins between planks) and routed out some places for straps. I then installed the stainless steel straps with stainless hardware, and plastered it over with Marine Tex (see pictures). I will dive into fiberglass next weekend because the Marine Tex needs some time to cure. And dont' worry, I didn't put Epoxy into the hardware holes (not yet).

Does anyone have any hints on what type of fiberglass to use? For instance, there is fiberglass mat (looks like fiberglass particle board almost) vs. fiberglass cloth (looks like what they wrapped my broken wrist in when I was 12). I've gotten conflicting recommendations from different folks. I think I'm leaning towards the woven cloth simply because it looks easier to use.

Lastly, I'm still looking for some kind of guide to raising the mast and doing the rigging on a Pearson, if anyone has any leads on such a thing. Thanks!

-Juris

[ebb]

Of course you know wood swells when wet and shrinks when drying.

But maybe with old rudder wood there is less movement in this regard.  There may still be some swell in the wood of your rudder  and that imco is a good thing when considering encapsulating.
Nature abhors a vacuum.  The wood will want to equalize with its environment.

Believe some have done this successfully on this Board.
But it is controversial.

Some suggestions:
Use the best laminating 100% solids no blush EPOXY you can find.  The best epoxy is always 1 to 1 or 2 to 1.
Put on an initial wet soak coat.
Always build on a wet soak (sometimes on other projects you have to dry it off).   Priming in this way helps to insure the bond.  If epoxy sets/drys you have to abrade it to provide tooth for the next layer.  Just lightly sand a cloth layer, lightly. You can work the Xmatt.

I would use "panels' of XMATT (or equivalent*- do not use plain mat or roving) on the sides, just on the flats, no attempt to turn any corners.  This is to provide some beef over the area that ordinarily wants to move.  One layer should be enough.  Would then laminate  over that something as light as 6oz cloth in maybe three layers.

Hopefully somebody who has done this will post here.  I'm imagining how I would proceed:

Smooth and fair.  
Coarsely abrade everything including the bronze.
Would work first on one side, beginning with a heavy Xmatt panel, cut smaller than the rudder, but just barely lapping the bronze to wood join, just,
 then drape  6oz over the blade on all sides.  Let it set. Trim off all the danglies, smooth all edges.  (Shurform tools)
Turn the rudder over and do the same there, making sure you lap over the edges.
Let it set, or if you have time, drape a second layer of cloth over the first.
Then reverse the rudder and put another layer of cloth over the first side making sure you turn the fabric over the edges.  The fabric won't build up much as you  double the edges.

A trick with the cloth is to lay it on at 45 degrees to the rudder post, on the bias.  You will be amazed at how well the 6oz will drape over the edges all around.  You will have to cut here and there, but it'll be a piece of cake, I'm certain.

Make sure you have abraded the bronze rudder post so epoxy will stick. I'm assuming you will be wrapping the shaft along with everything else.  This will increase the diameter of the shaft.  I believe that 4 turns (maybe even 6 turns of 6oz) of 6oz will be OK to fit in the hollow of the keel 'post'.  Can always sand the hollow out a little with a two inch sanding drum (as described here) to make room.  Remember room for multiple coats of bottom paint!  Also as you fatten the rudder you will decrease its swing radius.

In the gudgeon area it should be possible to cut out what you don't want and add back a single layer of 6oz to the wound to line the cutout.  If it is incorporated in the layering so much the better.  I wouldn't depend on just wetting the cutout with epoxy or rubber.  Need the best seal there.

Then fair with compound mixed in the same epoxy.  I like 407.

And of course pay particularr attention to the shaft where it extends into the shoe and out of the top.
I have a prejudice with woven cloth, shouldn't sand through it.  You can sand and grind on Xmatt, not cloth.  You notice when working with glass that it is not 'amalgamated' into a laminate, it just gets encapsulated by the epoxy.  It's still fiberglass stiffened with snot.  That's why the quality of the resin is so important.
Your rudder, of all things, deserves the best!
IMCO

Hope some of this helps.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
*I use Knytex Xmat from TAP.  It is two layers of unidirectional (bundles)  glass roving  at 45 dgrees to each other and very very loosely sewn together.
You can persuade this stuff into corners when wet.  It turn outside corners too but not as well. Experienced people can manipulate the fabric by pulling on it to make it turn corners.  I would not turn corners with Xmatt on the rudder.  It comes in 19 and 25oz, I believe, thick and more thicker.  It gobbles up resin like nothing else.  You can (as described elsewhere) put mylar film on the wet-out mat and create pressure to squeeze out resin to make it more dense and stronger.  Sandbags - waterbags maybe?