New Generation Anchor

[Mac]

yDon't know yet what the difference is between the Wasi and the Buegel.

Wasi is the Company (a big German Stainless gear supplier) and Buegel is the anchor they make/sell.

Like a Lewmar CQR.

Nice research Commander and Amos. interesting to see them all lined up like that.

[craigsmith]

Rocna

25 lbs

$400+

:confused:

We do not, to my knowledge, produce a 25lbs model.

Current New Zealand pricing:
Rocna 10 (22lbs): NZ$450 ~= US$270
Rocna 15 (33lbs): NZ$560 ~= US$335

Wasi is the Company (a big German Stainless gear supplier) and Buegel is the anchor they make/sell.

And Buegel is the term for the anchor, "Bügelanker" litterally meaning "handle anchor" or "roll-bar anchor" in German. It has become a rather generic design; since it is so simply built, there are more copies than originals around the Mediterranean, and "Buegel" is no longer a brand.

Alain Hylas (Spade, SSCA forum) says you should never use chain unless you are in coral, anyway.

I don't think so!

[c_amos]

Craigsmith,
 
 
Commander Pete had originally listed the Rocna as "$300+" and changed it after my post. I had pretty much decided to order a Rocna 10, and contacted the company in Canada, Suncoast Marine that was listed as the North American distributor for your anchor.
 
The $400 was based on the quote I recieved at the time. I wonder if the price has been lowered? I will look for my notes on Monday.

[craigsmith]

I had pretty much decided to order a Rocna 10, and contacted the company in Canada, Suncoast Marine that was listed as the North American distributor for your anchor.
 
The $400 was based on the quote I recieved at the time. I wonder if the price has been lowered? I will look for my notes on Monday.

Well it's there in your own link :confused: lol, CA$365 ~= US$320.

Prices outside North America a bit cheaper again: NZ$450 ~= US$270

[Mac]

Alain Hylas (Spade, SSCA forum) says you should never use chain unless you are in coral, anyway.

A very popular theory judging by the number of boats you see with no chain :confused:  :confused:  :confused:

Everyone to their own so I'm not knocking Alain but I think that theory just does not stack up in so many ways, sorry.

[commanderpete]

Thanks for the corrections, working them in. Keep 'em coming

Don't think I've ever seen a photo lineup of anchors before

Any other worthy candidates?

[ebb]

C'Pete,
google:

SOFT MUD BOTTOM ANCHOR TEST

Anchor Reset Tests


Another anchor called The Barnacle is included in the comparisons.

[commanderpete]

Here's that link

http://www.creativemarine.com/newprodct/anchor%20test/soft_mud_bottom_anchor_test.htm
 
The test is really a joke

Cant find any info on the Barnacle--no website, no distributor.

Its the one on the right in this photo

[CapnK]

Just gonna throw this out, since most of this talk is speculation about anchors we are wondering about/haven't used, and this anchor didn't get talked about much in the prior "in depth" (groan!) discussion...

I *have* used the Bulwagga, for 2 1/2 years, and it performed *wonderfully*. I used it on bottoms composed of mud, sand, oysters, and "pluff mud" (a very soft, very sinky type of mud), or some variation of these. It was designed to work in grass and rock, however, so I think it may well vie for being a great all-around anchor. The one thing I always see written about it - almost always by folks who don't have/haven't had one - is that "it's difficult to stow" due to it's shape. If that's all there is to criticize, well...

Then, make it your bowser, and leave 'er up there on the pointy end of your boat, where she stows well. lol

My experience with the Bulwagga has me looking at all of these other anchors with an eye towards which will be my secondary.

Noted before, but the Bulwagga carries a "1 year, 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed" warranty, and said warranty doesn't have any loopholes that I can see.

For rode, I use 30' of chain spliced onto laid line. I used the same rode with the Danforth-type anchors which I had/used before the Bulwagga.

Last - as stated before, I have no financial or otherwise interest, I'm not affiliated with Noteca/Bulwagga at all, other than the fact that I just learned to love their product after putting it to good use in a lot of varied conditions.

C'pete - good job on those pics!

[c_amos]

It was designed to work in grass and rock, however, so I think it may well vie for being a great all-around anchor. The one thing I always see written about it - almost always by folks who don't have/haven't had one - is that "it's difficult to stow" due to it's shape. If that's all there is to criticize, well...

And in a pinch it would make a nifty radar reflector also....
 

[Adam]

This isn't specific to Ariels or Commanders, but if you'll look on the beach, you'll see what was reported to me to be the cause of this incident. I like the convenience of the danforth-types, but I sleep more easily with a bruce.

[Bill]

Ebb writes:  This is the Manson Supreme 25# $170.  Let's call it my winner of the anchor fracas.  The fluke is indeed straight but it is curved.  The fluke is NOT bent from its tip to its heel.  My reasoning tells me that this blade will dig in and keep digging in under pressure from the rode and not round out as spoon shaped anchors seem to want to do.  Since it is not cupped I would think that mud would fall off more easily when retrieved.  The hoop is held on with extra tabs welded to the blade.  The tip is quite sharp and is reinforced.  The device always rights itself to this position (except one, see below).

[Bill]

Ebb continues:  Here is the Supreme in its only compromising position.   Note the tip reinforcement under the fluke extending under the shank base.  Note also the same at the hoop end.  The hoop pipe is open and looks galvanized inside.  This anchor looks like it'll do its job in more bottoms than any other.  The only question is whether the anchor works well in smaller sizes and weights.

[ebb]

Adam's pic, was it the bent danforth or the headless raven that was the cause....?

It sometimes comes up often as not that it is a 'bruce style' or a 'danforth style' anchor.

The style of anchor is, of course, no guarantee of its trustworthyness.  That danforth style anchor in the photo bears no resemblance to the USNavy Danforth* anchor in my possession.  It has a  forged shank that tapers from 3/4" at the shackle to 1 1/4" at the base where the flukes swivel.  The hinge area looks like it's been hot riveted together.  The flukes are 1/4" with a wide tapering flanges on the inner edges.  It's stamped with a contract number and the date 1944.  There not a hint of rust anywhere in the galvanizing.  Probably pretty close to the real thing.

The Danforth anchor I have would probably turn under load  in mud or sand if the wind shifted without bending its shank.  The thing looks like it can do a job of work.
What would convince anybody to put their lives and their boat at the end of a cheap flimsy anchor?  338 came with a skinny "Hi-Tensil" Danforth (repeated on the faded label 10 times)  The galvanizing is turning crusty white.  The contrast between that one and the WWII one is instructional.  It shows how easy it is we can be led astray by a comforting buzz word.  One of my two Danforth anchors is an IMPOSTER.  If I looked close would I find the word 'oblivion' stamped in its shank?

There seems to be a lot of folderol and flimflam in the anchor business.  If it were possible I believe there should be a set of tests and standards an anchor should pass befor marketing.  Maybe an anchor should be graded one two and three, based on strength and holding power.  It would mean that it would be tested befor marketing.  It's probably unfair to the little guy, but there's money and lives on the hook.

The Manson Supreme is a cool anchor - 25# distributed between a wide SHARP pointed blade - a roll-over bar that does what it's supposed to and adds to the anchor's handling ease - and a 12mm (7/16") shank that uses its weight there to help tip the anchor onto its weighted tip.  Pretty clever design.  Would guess that the anchor would turn while buried without harm to the shank.  Haven't dragged it behind a SUV yet.

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*The Danforth Anchor was invented by Bill Danforth in Berkeley CA (according to "pyacht".)  Obviously sometime befor 1943 and was sold to the military and a seaplane company.   TieDownEngineering bought the pattern from Rule in 2000 and now makes them.  The older anchor I have evidently is a surplus Navy modified (very beefy) version by an H.P.Shipley.  If the anchor mentioned above that came with 338 is an original pattern Bill Danforth,  then it was definitely time to move on to a 'new generation anchor'.

[ebb]

Entered the above post twice.  Sorry...  
Went to the Manson Supreme site to kind of check out my observations.  I agree pretty much minus the hype.  And also minus actual use.  Need a bunch of observations by users, mostly in our boat-size range.
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The advertising copy writer for the Supreme, while he or she credits the French Spade with starting the 'new generation' anchor evolution, does not understand that the Manson anchor is not a spoon.  If I dipped my new anchor in a pan  and tried to lift water out with the blade it would not work.  Will not hold water.  The M.S. is not a spoon anchor like 95% of the others and that is a huge difference imco in its deployment.  And imco is the reason why it will work better and more intelligently than any spoon or cup shaped anchor will.
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[Went back to the Mocna (so spelt at another anchor forum probably to avoid kiwi vender popups - we'll see...) site to see if anything had changed in the video.  Nope.
Apropos the obvious imitation danforth in the Adam pic above, the claw and plow anchors used in the SUV pull test are both (admitted in the video text)imitations of the style.  The claw was not a Bruce and the plow not a CQR.  Would the real ones have performed differently?   Uh-huh. Well, so WHAT is authentic testing?  Let's use authentic anchors for starters.
Wonder if the 1944 danforth style anchor (it doesn't say Danforth on it anywhere) I have is close to what Mr Danforth invented?
I would (briefly) like to have a Mocna to compare with the Supreme.  In images the Mocna fluke  looks proportionally longer, ie narrower.  It really is more of a spade shape than a spoon, or maybe a pan shape in that it will hold material in its concave top.  The hoop attachment looks identical to me to the Manson.  I might have ordered a Mocna earlier on in this exercise if it wasn't  for that strange video.)