Jib lead questions?

[Anthony/Bina]

We wanted to find out why our jib lead is on top of the cabin. Anyone out there know why?...When the jib lead is on top of the cabin, it cannot directly lead to the winch on the coaming board. Instead, it over-rides! Is anyone out there using the original set-up? If so, how are they implementing it? Or does eveyone simply mount their tracks on the deck?
Two curious sailors, Anthony & Sabrina

[mbd]

Do you have one on each side? Perhaps that lead is for your working or storm jib?  Just a guess.  I had thought my setup was stock...  except for all the hardware mounted on the cabin top, that is.   :rolleyes:

[Mike Goodwin]

On Commander #105 we run from the cabintop to the winch with no problem, Have you moved your winches or the track?

[Bill]

We wanted to find out why our jib lead is on top of the cabin.

The factory placed the jib leads on the cabin top because of the high clew head sails then in use.  Later, owners have generally placed the leads on the deck using track.  See the many photos on this subject . . .

[Anthony/Bina]

Thank you everyone for addressing our concerns.
I guess I did not state my question clearly though. Our real concern is when the fairlead leads the line down to the wench, there is a lot of over-ride. So, because of this, we are using the wench that we ourselves have placed on the cabintop (even though truly we need this wench for other running rigging). So, the problem is not from the sail to the fairlead, but from the fairlead to the wench. Why would the factory install a set-up like this with the wench and fairlead and how do we fix it?
Thank you, Commander #155

[ebb]

Well, what do I know. You have the jib sheet, the mainsheet, and the genakker sheet for running rigging.  You don't have the main on your cabin top.  Whatever foresail you have in use you have it wrapped around the winch and either selftailed or  held to a cleat of some sort, and those winches are usually on your cockpit coamings.

On San Francisco Bay you better have big winches on your coamings or you will loose jib control.

If you are talking about the halyards, vang, reefing lines if led aft, cunningham etc on the cabin top, they are usually led thru line controlers near and in front of a smaller winch on the cabin  they all share - on the port side and/or the starboard side at the end of the cockpit by the companionway.

Line controlers or clutches are (in my limited experience) fairleads that clamp the line, holding the line from going back from where you pulled it,  but will allow you to pull it toward you by hand or on the winch even if the clamp is closed.  A wonderful feature.  Each unused line is held tightly in the controler.  Or a single line can be left loose if you so desire.  You can release the clamp on a single line to let the line move freely.

Don't understand how jib sheets could be led over the cabin top, even on a Commander? :confused:

[Mike Goodwin]

Ebb, Look at post #3 and you can see the jib sheet on the Stbd side going through a block on the cabintop on it's way to the winch on the coaming .
I don't see ( without pictures ) why he is having a problem , if it works on one boat , it should work on all unless someone has moved the winches or tracks .

BTW Anthony , wenches are the babes in bikinis that pull on the sheets for you , just ask Commander Pete.

[Bill]

Ebb, Look at post #3 and you can see the jib sheet on the Stbd side going through a block on the cabintop on it's way to the winch on the coaming

IMHO, that track belongs on the deck, not on the cabin top.  Of course, I guess it works if you have a very high clew headsail.

[Mike Goodwin]

I agree, I like the tracks on the rail , fewer broken toes that way !

[ebb]

Larn sumpin airy day!

Think a plan view of the whole deck layout of each boat with a grid overlay would help skippers, especially new ones, refer to their specific concerns?  It would show the original layout and locations of gear.

We'd be refering to numbers and letters rather than vague boat locations.

The boat would be lettered from A to Z from bow to stern in feet.
And starting from zero on the centerline out P and S in 3 or 6 inch increments.  
We'd all be on the same page.  And track and fittings, different from original or additions of anything of interest,  that really work well for one skipper  could be shared with all of us with this simple diagram!

It could be accessed thru the blue bar up top of this page.

Yes?  No?

[commanderpete]

I removed those jib tracks years ago--don't use them with a roller furling genoa.

I seem to recall getting some winch overrides when I used those tracks with a hanked on jib.

The problem is that the sheet leads to the winch from above rather than below.

Otherwise, its a good location---well inboard so you can sheet the jib in tight.

I suppose the only solution is a short length of track on deck.

In the meantime you could try using less wraps on the winch.

[SkipperJer]

Commander #270 has this set-up too.  The jib tracks are on the cabin top. If you run the jib sheets directly to the winch on the coaming the lines over-ride.  I run the sheets from the block on the cabin top all the way aft to the block on the deck-mounted genoa track then double-back forward to the winch. The angle of the line is flatter so it doesn't over-ride.  I get some funny looks particularly from Ariel skippers but it works well.  The only down-side I can think of is that you need long jib sheets.

Why is the track on the cabin top?  Because you can point up even higher pulling the sail in closer to the centerline than if you ran it to a block on the deck.  My guess is those old high cut clews were that way to allow for the sail to come over the cabin top to reach this inboard track.  I can get to somewhere dead upwind faster with the smaller jib pulled in tight than I can with the big genney.  I may go faster with the genney but I'm closer to the wind with the jib and make better speed toward an upwind point.