Commander and Outboards

[Theis]

The problem with my Ariel #82 taking on water in the lasarette when under motor power has been a real problem.  When I first bought the boat in 1966, and was motoring down Lake Michigan, I almost sank because of it (the motor lasarette bulkhead leaked, and being a new boat to me, I was not aware of the source of the water.  I just saw the water coming up over the floorboards).

The reason the problem is particularly severe is that when the lasarette is loaded with water, there is a loss of floatation in the stern and the bow rides high.  The more water there is, the more the problem is compounded.

To remedy the problem, I inserted under each of the platforms on either side of the motor well 13" tire innertubes and inflated them.  Although this does not stop water from coming in, it does limit the volume/weight of water in the lasarette and maintains the floatation.

Second, I drilled two 3/4" or 1" holes at the center of the forward end of the bottom of the motor well into the lasarette so that any water that accumulated in the lasarette could discharge.  These holes are a bit above the ambient water level, but under water when under motor power - so they drain.

Now the big step:  My motor now is an 8hp Yamaha 2cycle, long shaft.  This year I largely solved the water problem, and with a little more work think it will be totally solved.  An additional problem with the Yamaha, incidentally, is that exhaust fumes come up throught the motor well.  I can not close the cover when the motor is running because it will fill with exhaust and choke out the motor.

I cut a hole in bottom of the the motor well "insert" (the piece you put in the hole when you are not using the outboard) so that the lower unit of the OB would pass through it.  Thus, now the insert is used even with the motor in place.

Then, around the edge of the cutout, I built a fiberglass vertical "wall", the top extending horizontally forward from the level of the cutout at the back of the insert.  Thus, now, there is a level rectangular surface surrounding the cutout in the bottom of the insert.

On top of that surface I mounted a self stick foam rubber gasket.

Continuing, on the lower unit of the motor, I built a horizontally oriented fiberglass cover plate.  The plate is secured to the lower unit with fiberglass.  It is sealed - tight.  The glass adheres to the lower unit very well.  The cover plate is now a permanent part of the motor.

When the motor is mounted in place, the coverplate fits over the foam rubber gasket and seals in the well (and also prevents exhaust from working up into the motor well.  Although there can still be leakage, it is small enough in volume so that it drains through the drain hole in the front/bottom of the motor well and does not accumulate.

One other fix:  On the back underside of outboards are a couple holes that serve as pressure relief for the exhaust.  When the motor is in gear, the exhaust is sucked out of the propellor.  When in idle or very low speeds, however,  there is no such draw, and these two holes become the exhaust ports.  Being inside the lasarette, they fill the lasarette with exhaust and the exhaust chokes out the motor.  

I connected a fitting to each hole (secured with epoxy), connected a neoprene hose to the fitting and ran the hose through the cover plate so that the exhaust runs under the stern.

I know it works with regard to the lasarette filling.  Next year will tell if I have fixed the exhaust problem.  The reason I would like the cover closed is that, with the motor running, it is so much quiter (and looks better too).

[Mike Goodwin]

2 questions;
Can you still steer with the motor when backing ?

How long does it take to pull or mount the motor with this setup ?

[SkipperJer]

Any chance of pictures of your setup?  I have an 8HP Sailmaster that drives the boat very well but the exhaust circulating up into the lazerette is a real problem.

[Theis]

Answers to questions:

No, I don't use the motor to steer.  But I have the Yamaha prop that has a very powerful reverse.  The conventional outboard prop cavitates in reverse.  The exhaust is forced out aft of the prop and is sucked into the prop when in reverse causing the cavitation.  With the Yamaha prop (and it may be available on others), the exhaust leaves forward of the prop so the prop gets a good bite on the water.  In other words, when going forward, the exhaust goes astern, and when in reverse, it goes forward.

As for taking the motor out, it doesn't take long.  The biggest job is disconnecting the electrical.  Then, the motor, the clamps, the prop and all have to be carefully guided out.  Getting the prop through the cut out is not a problem.  Between the unscrewed clamps and the back of the motor, there is not much space in the opening of the lasarette.  That is where there is a tight fit.

One of the design criteria was that I would be able to get the motor out relatively expeditiously.  With the motor weighing perhaps 70 pounds, it takes a bit of lifting effort, but that isn't any different than if the motor was simply put through the well.

One of design reasons, though, that I did not make the plate that is mounted to the engine the same size as the insert, is that I feared that it might be difficult to mount and extricate the motor because I would not have been able to rotate the motor when extricating it.

I should mention, that, except for repairs, my motor is left in the water throughout the season.  I believe the Bay Area sailors take the motor out when racing (but they also have lighter motors without electrical starts and generators, as I recall).  

As for a drawing (I don't have photos at this time) I'll try to make some sketches this weekend.  Sketches should be better anyway if you'll put up with my drawing skills (friends - whoops, that should be singular - say I should have been a doctor, considering how I write).

[Theis]

Sorry for the delay of how I sealed the well, but I decided to take pictures rather than to rely on my drawing capabilities.  In the following set of pictures, you will notice rough edges.  I have improvements to the system that are in process.  These rough epoxy edges will be sanded smooth- but these pictures will give the general idea.

If anyone wants a complete set of the pictures, give me the address and I will send them to you.

[Theis]

This is the front view showing the walls

[Theis]

This is the bottom view of the motor well insert

[Theis]

This is the flange mounted on the motor.  Notice how it curls up in back approximating the back of the motor well insert

[Theis]

This is the back of the motor.  Notice the two tubes that conduct the exhaust under the flange and out of the motor well.

[SkipperJer]

Thanks for the photos.  They are a big help to the imagination-impaired.

[ebb]

RearCom Theis,
May I echo the above - Thanks for the informative photos.

Heard a rumor here that some racers  on the Bay sit in the ob laz and kick their feet.  It's a gas.  Cheaper than gas, and environmentally sound.

[Bill]

Not true Ebb.  We use a paddle . . .

[Theis]

I have to say it does look like the insert has an alternative use.

Peter

[Robert Lemasters]

My Commander(105) takes on water now and then in the lazarette. What I don't understand why it dosn't take on water all of the time? The last time I went out about a week ago the lazarette stayed dry. Note that I went hard aground and that the Nissan 6hp motor was able to back the boat out without much trouble. I like this motor very much, it has plenty of power for this boat. Well 'Sparkey" has had the commings redone and the Pearson Commander name plates have been rechromed. I am now repacing the companionway washboards with new ones made from African mahogny. My wife Pat and I just love this boat, I understand that Alberg sailed a Commander.

[Brent]

#66 has a a bracket on the transom (which will be removed).

According to the PO, the engine would choke on its own exhaust if the lazarette hatch was closed, so they would run with it open. But #66 would take water in the lazarette and that would splash into the cockpit, hence the bracket.