Messages

Are not teak and mahogany symbols of beauty for the embellishment of the aristocratic and wealthy?

Oh please...

Regular people can like varnished wood too.

Do what makes you happy and never attempt to compell others to your beliefs. To each their own, and that's fine.

If you can find accurate information regarding the prismatic coefficient of either--or both--designs, you can easily figure the relative volume to an extent that will quelch this pointless debate.

However, I've not seen this figure for these boats, so have no idea.  FWIW, interior volume is typically affected more by increases in beam than length.  With only a 3" difference in beam between the A/C and Triton, we're not looking at an exponential difference in volume.

The Triton rudder is definitely different than the one pictured above.  Whether or not a rudder from a Triton could be used in place of the Ariel rudder is another question, but the shape is somewhat different--mostly at the top.  Probably some minor modification would make it work if necessary, if one happened to be lying around.  

As it happens, I have a spare Triton rudder here, from hull #100.  It's warped and, frankly, pretty crappy, but if you're interested let me know.  I have no use for it other than as a rough pattern.

If that ripoff estimate isn't inspiration enough for you to do whatever it takes to learn how to build a rudder yourself, then I guess nothing will!

Rudders are easy--and inexpensive.  Even factoring in a new shaft (I hesitate to quote here because prices vary so widely depending on vendor and location and quality, but a new shaft on my Triton a few years ago--including a designed bend, welded ears, and milled boltholes--was about $300), you can build a brand-new rudder yourself for about 1/10 +/- of the cost you were quoted.  Obviously, the yard doesn't really want your business--too small a job, apparently, so they figure if you go for the ripoff they can make some easy money.  

I favor duplicating the original construction using solid mahogany boards.  But there are other ways to do it too.  Do whatever pleases you.

Not only do you get to save money, but you can learn new--and apparently very valuable--skills.  The only hard part is getting over any mental block you may have about jumping into the project.  Again:  that quote should be more than enough reason to try!

Good luck.

[as long as it was a protected harbor with little or no fetch.]

Questions asked...questions answered.

My anchor platform, as seen above, features a 3/8" thick SS plate for reinforcement.  The plate, which is 24" long, extends the full overhang forward of the bow (you can see it in the photo) and extends aft onto the deck, where the platform is bolted through the deck and heavily backed.  



Two of the six bolts securing the platform (the entire platform is 42" long) pass through the SS plate.  The plate is epoxied to the bottom side of the wooden platform, so the wood is mostly cosmetic.  When deployed, the anchor line runs aft to an 8" sampson post secured to the deck.  Assuming high winds, but no significant wave action, the forces on all bolts (sampson post, anchor platform, and rollers) would remain in shear, not tension.  Both rollers installed are as heavy-duty as they come, not that that by any means they are infalliable.  (Far from it)



I would feel comfortable anchored out with this rig in any situation as long as it was a protected harbor with little or no fetch.  It's the waves that kill an anchored boat during a storm, not the wind pressure.  Violent motion at the bow creates incredible forces on any mooring setup.  That said, I'd worry first about the chafe from such motion, then worry about damaging the rollers or platform.  Frankly, if it got that bad, I don't believe there's much anyone could do except hope for the best.  I'd prefer to take precautionary steps well in advance to avoid the possibility in the first place.  That's the best insurance.

I feel comfortable in the strength of the rollers and the platform to withstand the wind pressures that might be encountered.  The key is to ensure that your safe harbor is well protected from sea development.  My intended hurricane hole here in Maine (unneeded so far, thankfully) is protected from all directions and is small enough to prevent damaging sea development in any wind.  

I would not ever put 100% faith in anchor rollers or platforms on any boat, no matter what.  The potential for failure is real, and is well documented in known failures.  I believe this particular platform is as good as any, but have no disillusions about its ultimate strength or ability to survive severe wave conditions.  But I feel as good about it as I ever could.

Everett Pearson (yes, that Pearson) debunks this silliness about the hull laminates (i.e. "just add extra glass because we don't know anything and we're scared of this material") in a taped discussion with the New England Triton Association from  March 2, 1977.

During this talk, Pearson discusses how the Triton was specifically engineered to certain strength requirements.  Specifically, the hull laminate was engineered to be able to support the entire weight of the boat on any single square inch of the hull, with only a certain minimal, specified deflection (I forget exactly, but it's in the recording) and no structural failure.  I imagine the same sort of engineering was used for subsequent models as well.   Granted, their engineering specifications were high, and the boats' hulls may well be overbuilt, but they were engineered as such--it wasn't an accident.

This is not to condone the myriad other construction flaws that can be found in the older Pearsons.   They were a budget boat and were undeniably imperfect, but look how well they've withstood the trials of time regardless.  The need for certain repairs and structural enhancements after 30 or 40 years can hardly be faulted.

The recording I mentioned above, along with another very interesting talk by Tom Potter (the person who brought the idea for the Triton to the Pearson cousins in 1958), are available on CD to anyone who is interested from the New England Triton Association.  A nominal fee to cover production and shipping costs is all that is required.  You may contact me for details.  Email me at tlackey@pearsontriton.com

To anyone interested in these recordings:  Please note that these recordings are not perfect--they are duplicates of amateur recordings from 1977--but they are audible and provide an interesting history lesson.

The spreader bases were $49.40 each, plus tax and shipping for a total of $106.99 delivered.  This was for the raw casting with no holes drilled.  Drilling the holes to match is easy.

It's a 3" x 6" spreader base.  Sorry--I don't recall the diameter of the spreader tube...perhaps 1-1/4"?   Don't quote me.

Give Jay Maloney a call at the number above in Nathan's email.

Tim

$180 each!  Ouch.

I replaced the two spreader bases on my Triton this year and paid $106 for both pieces.  My old ones had hairline cracks that were only visible after close inspection.

The new ones were stock items from somewhere; I ordered them through a rigger I have used in the past.  It's amazing how much tighter the spreaders fit in the new bases than the old.

Tim
Triton 381

Another option is the retrofit track slide by Strong/Tides Marine.  It fits over your existing track and is easily owner-installed with no additional mast fastenings (or so I understand).

Tides Marine

I hear great things about these, though I've never actually experienced one in use.  Not exactly cheap, but less than some of the alternatives.

Tim

Please don't try to save a few bucks using polyester resin for boat repairs.  You will very likely be sorry later!  This is penny wise and pound foolish.

Polyester may be fine for new construction, but for repairs to existing construction you need the "secondary bonding" capability of epoxy.  Like Ebb said, epoxy is an adhesive resin, while polyester is not.

Polyester works well only with primary bonds--that is, the chemical bond that forms when layers are added within the "green" working time.  Once this brief window of opportunity has passed, the bonds will not be particularly strong.  The same goes (especially) for bonding wooden pieces with polyester--wood and polyester do NOT like to stick together for any length of time.

No one ever said boat repairs were cheap.  You still have to use the right product for the job.  For most boat repairs, the right resin is epoxy.  It doesn't have to be West System--many of the other epoxies are also excellent.  Each system has its own unique qualities, strengths and weaknesses, however, and each is slightly different to work with.  West System is an excellent epoxy, but my no means the only one out there.  Amine blush is, to my way of thinking, an extremely minor thing to worry about--it's very simple to scrub with water and Scotchbrite pad, and once it's a habit you don't even think twice about it.  

Unless you are laminating on green resin of any kind, you are getting only a secondary bond.  Once the green stage is passed, you need to choose the product that will give you the strongest mechanical, or secondary (adhesive) bond.

Don't mess with this.  There is a difference between poly and epoxy, and it's a very important one for this application.

Personally, I didn't like MAS epoxies when I tried them--I had trouble with incomplete curing, among other  things.  I have never experienced a single problem with West System--it always works exactly as intended.  Also try System 3 or Raka.  Buying the small cannisters of West System filler products will break your budget in a hurry--you can buy any filler in bulk from Raka or System 3.  They are the same thing, and also work with polyester (not that you should be using poly!)

Tim

We do have nice  heavy bronze Triton "Dudent" plaques, though.  This thing is nearly 3/8" thick.

Tim

Some Tritons had, or have, a very similar emblem.  You don't see many of these left--they must have been really cheap, lousy castings that just fell apart after a while.

The attached photo is not my boat, but it shows one of the emblems, which someone smartly moved inside the boat for preservation.

Tim

Tony,

Consider me a definite for a copy of those trailer plans and building information.  Let us know how much and where to send it.

Thanks!

Tim Lackey
tlackey@triton381.com

Thank God for Hamilton Marine, our local Maine boat supply savior.  I now only go to the local West if Hamiltons doesn't have what I need RIGHT THEN.  This almost never happens.  Hamilton has a much better stock than West.  And much better prices.

It's worth requesting a catalog from Hamilton Marine, regardless of where you live.  They ship quickly, and have everything.  Prices are as good or better as anywhere online for most things.  I have found that ordering from them online is extremely fast and efficient, too.

//www.hamiltonmarine.com

I don't work for 'em, I just like 'em!

The best thing about West Marine is that their catalog is so complete, and in color, so you can better choose what to buy online from a different seller with a better price.  At least it's a good research tool!

Tim

There are some flexible molds available to recreate nonskid patterns.  I have never used one, but they exist.  Used properly, you cannot tell.

One source for this product is:  Gibco Flex-Mold.  (gibco@swbell.net)  Phone 817-236-5021.  No website, sorry.

I have had good luck with the Interlux polymeric nonskid particles mixed into the paint.  They seem to hold up well, and it is a very easy system to use successfully.  I used it first on my Ensign, and that deck is still going strong 5 years later.  I used the same thing on my Triton and am pleased with the results--both functional and cosmetic.  It requires removing the existing pattern, though.  (as far as I'm concerned anyway)

Tim