Messages

Ebb,

Replace the asterix in each URL address with an "i" and they should work. It's just the particular designations in the code against profanity that (in this unique  case) prevent the page from showing.

What an amazing story. It makes me feel that waiting another six months for "perfect" technical preparations are somehow useless and pointless. "If it 'twere now to die, 'twere now to be most happy..."

 :rolleyes:

J.

"Faith,"

Go ahead and mount that anchor roller. At the VERY least, you'll be making the pull mostly horizontal rather than the directly vertical pull that gives us all lumbago. Being able to sit and pull makes a big difference, provided that you pull with your ARMS and ABS and not your back. I'm no expert but I spent many, many years in ballet class learning the mechanics and anatomy of the human body. Your lower back should only be used when perfectly upright such as standing or walking. Those muscles are T-I-N-Y and not at all designed to take a strain. Just as we've all heard "lift with your legs, not with your back," so it should be "weigh anchor with your biceps (and abs), not with your back."

Regarding spending "too much" on ground tackle, you don't need to spend too much, just "enough" to make sure that you're covered in all possible cases. WHERE you sail and the bottoms of those locales determine that. Having briefly reviewed this entire thread, I see that many people refer to the Practical Sailor test, but there is also a test that was done on Puget Sound by the American Sailing Assoc. in 1995. ("On June 17 and 18, 1995 the Safety at Sea Committee of the Sailing Foundation conducted anchor tests on five selected sites on Puget Sound.  The tests were co-sponsored by West Marine Products and attended by their representative, Chuck Hawley.  Also in attendance were Portland naval architect Robert Smith who has written and tested anchor behavior  extensively1, and Andy Peabody of Creative Marine who markets the  MAX anchor. Diving services and underwater video were donated by Dwayne Montgomery of Emerald City Diving.")

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anchor/anchor_study.htm

(Other studies are available on this website as well, and I recommend them as good reading to all.)

Other sources include the Pardeys and Nigel Calder. Both have tables in their books relating wind strength to anchor size and holding power. Being a firm believer in the laws of physics, I feel that these are definitely worth reading.

Despite the Puget Sound study confirming that the bruce has the LEAST holding power of the "mainstream" anchors, I opted for a 22-lb (oversized) bruce as my working anchor. The wind-pressure/holding-power tables will show that this anchor is OK up to about 750lbs of pull. On an Ariel, this means a sustained 70- to 80-knot wind. I can say with all honesty, that if I ever encounter a sustained 80-knot wind, I hope I'm at sea as far from land as humanly possible! Additionally, the Puget Sound study "confirms" (as much as is possible) that you just can't beat a bruce's SETTING record: 97% on the first try. Plus, 22lbs just isn't THAT much to be hauling on compared to a 45-lb fisherman. Lastly, I had a 22-lb bruce on my first cruising boat, a Paceship 26, which NEVER ONCE let me down despite that boat's infinitely greated windage.

On other boats, the couple that introduced me to sailing used as their working anchor (on their 57-foot gaff-rigged schooner) a 65-lb fisherman. They have cruised the Bahamas every winter for the last 20+ years and claim that it has never once let them down, unlike their CQR which they claim has dragged on numerous occasions. Given the rocky/coral bottom of most Bahamian Islands, I am not at all surprised.

In short, the money spent on ground tackle (I feel) should not be spent so much on EVERYTHING as it should on THE RIGHT THINGS. If you've never seen a rock on the bottom, no need to have a bruce or fisherman and all-chain rode. Get a danforth and some 1/2-inch nylon and sleep well! Contrarywise, if you intend to spend half your time in the tropics, 1/4-inch all-chain rode and a bruce or fisherman should be the mainstays of your repertoire.

And there, for what they're worth, are my opinions.

Jeremy

Mike:

I put a complete new deck and cabin top core on 220 the first week of August (not recommended) and while living aboard (VERY not recommended). It's not hard at all; it's just really, really disgusting. But if a bonehead like me can do it, anyone can.

I used a 1:1 epoxy recommended by Mike Goodwin of this site and was thrilled with it. It has a working life of around an hour at 70 degrees Fahrenheit, which for a novice like me was great. It is non-blushing and far cheaper than any other brand I could find after months of research. You can order it from //www.fgci.com. I ordered six gallons total, and I still have some left.

For a core, I used Corecel which was recommended by both Mike Goodwin and "Sprite," also of this forum. I got six "remaindered" sheets on sale from Noah's Marine for $77 + $20 shipping, and I still have some left over. Given that it's closed-cell, it absorbs practically no epoxy. I was very happy with the way it sanded, how easily it cut, and the stiffness of the deck. The latter I tested after laying down a double-layer scarf joint and jumping up and down on it as hard as I could. I'm kinda small at 125lbs, but it didn't even flex. It's SOLID. The scarf joints I did with 2- and 4-inch 8.5oz FG tape from Jamestown Distr. It wets out very easily and is easy to work with.

The only "problem" I had was re-attaching the first piece of deck skin. I found that a peanut butter consistency epoxy was too thick as I could not physically put enough weight on the panel to get it back to its original level. I reduced the amount of silica after that and had no further problems.

I cut the deck skin off with a FG cutting blade on a DeWalt cutter/grinder. Worked like a charm.

I didn't take any pictures, because I don't have a digicam and there are a bunch of photos posted all over the web about recoring. All balsa looks the same when rotten.

Tips: 1) go ahead and buy a 10-lb bag of colloidal silica. It's the cheapest way to go, and you'll eventually use the rest on other projects. But find a place locally to buy it. It ships as "oversized," so that adds another $40 to the price if you buy it online. 2) In addition to good epoxy, FGCI has the best prices on 3M 5200 and 4200, latex gloves, tyvek suits, etc.

So that's what I did, and may I never have to do it again!

Jeremy

[sides]

With all due respect, I have spent innumerable hours pouring over this website for the last several months gleaning and searching for every piece of information I could about the Ariel in general, and NOWHERE have I personally found any information regarding the sides of the coachroof, their structural composition, if they may need reinforcing or how one would go about attacking such a project. Additionally, my manual arrived yesterday, and I am very much looking forward to digesting it in toto and searching through it for any information regarding the above question I had. In my first cursory review, I have already identified several additional projects which have been placed on my ever-growing To-Do List.

As I mentioned, Tim's kind reply addressed my specific issue, so I consider the matter closed, and again I would like to thank everyone that has replied to my many other inquiries. The information from this board's members has already saved me well over $1000 and countless of hours of future frustration.

Fair winds,

Jeremy

Tim Lackey had this to say when I emailed him. It pretty much takes care of my question:

The sides of the cabin trunk are not truly hollow.  What you have is a solid structural laminate, running from somewhere in the rounded curve at the top edge (where it transitions to the coachroof) down to the sidedeck level. There is an interior liner made of very thin and flimsy fiberglass that has no structural relevance at all; it is for appearance only.  There is generally a variable amount of space between the two, which may lead to the impression that it is hollow.  Generally, it's not necessary to do anything to the cabin sides, but if you have severe movment as a result of a horribly deteriorated coachroof, you may need to perform repairs.

The exact situation you have, coupled with your skills and what sort of access you can gain to the area from inside or out, will dictate your repair method.  If you needed to repair the sides of the trunk, it would be easy, but you might have to compromise the interior liner to gain proper access. That's the problem with molded liners:  they block access for the repairs that most boats eventually need.  I think it would be too much work for dubious gain to try and open and then patch the liner, which is no great shakes to begin with, so if you did need to go this route, I'd suggest considering some other sort of interior covering that pleased your sense of aesthetics.

Recoring is messy and time-consuming, but is not technically difficult. Just remember that the whole point is to bond the new core WELL to both bottom and top skins (that is, no voids and firmly affixed), and to prevent the possibility of any water getting into the core again, even with a non-organic core material.  Solid laminate in way of deck hardware and openings, and around all fastener locations is the best way to go.  At a minimum, be sure to overbore and refill (with epoxy) boltholes when installing hardware.  The hardest part of the job is creating the fair and smooth surface at the end that you need for a fine finish.

Good luck!  It's a great learning process.

Tim

[I cannot find ANYTHING about what to do if the VERTICAL faces of the coachroof are soft.]

So I have yet another question (BIG surprise there):

On #120, the core in coachroof over the v-berth is SHOT on the starboard side, the ENTIRE starboard side, including down and around the portlight. Or at least, the vertical walls around the portlight are compressible if there is, in fact, no core there. I have reread this entire thread, the more recent thread about recore we had going, searched the web, read the articles suggested, scanned my books, etc., and I cannot find ANYTHING about what to do if the VERTICAL faces of the coachroof are soft.

So what IS in the vertical walls? How would one go about repairing it if it IS rotten? Fill it with epoxy a little at a time? Without slicing off the whole coachroof, how could one be certain that bottom "joint" is void-free where new core (or whatever) meets the deck?

Anybody?

P.S. At least it was "encouraging" to find several cases of coachroof recore from the OUTSIDE, as I had planned on going in from the cabin. I've definitely changed my mind on that one. :-)

Also being a visual learner, I can appreciate Pete's comments. If anyone has a copy of the old warhorse "Sail Power" by Wallace Ross, there is a lot of good info on vang and traveller sheeting and sail twist with lots of pictures and diagrams to boot.

Some people say that the book is out of date with regards to its THEORY (slot effect, etc.), but regardless, the PHYSICS of sail trim are as eternal as the particles that create them. So this book still has much to offer and always will, IMHO.

Check it out.

The Three Sure Signs That You've Waited Too Long to Reef:

1. You ask yourself if you've waited too long to reef.
2. The crew reminds you that, as an amateur captain, you have no legal justification or precedent with which to order them out of the cabin and onto the windward rail.
3. Seaweed trails from your windex.



( I'm not this clever; I remember this from a magazine blurb about ten years ago.)

I'll stick to the Gulf Stream, thanks. At least there, land and rocks are much further away.

I have a quick (hopefully) question for Sprite and anyone else who has worked with Corecell: it being foam, does it soak up epoxy at twice the rate that closed-cell honeycomb or the like would? Basically, for a new deck, should I order 6, 9 or 12 gallons of epoxy? etc?

And Sprite thanks again for the Noah's tip. New deck core for the whole boat: $76.20 + shipping. Not a bad deal, you might say.

Fair winds,

Jeremy

Bill et al.,

#120 has an original set of line drawings from the factory, one of the nice profile and sail plan and another with three "X-ray" views (dorsal, lateral and anterior) of the hull. The former has a small "7" circled in the bottom right corner, and the latter has an "8" in the same manner.

Are these in any way rare or valuable? If so, I'd be far more comfortable turning them over to someone or an institution that could see to it that they are properly cared for rather than letting them sit aboard and slowly dissolve in the salt air. Alternatively, I'd frame the profile/sailplan one and store the other in a safe place at my parents' home.

Jeremy

Ebb, direct from the Raka website:

"All  Raka Epoxies are 100 % solids with no evaporating solvents and have low viscosity for superb penetration and wetting out of wood and fiberglass."

If they're lying, let me know; I'm still a lawyer in New York State. (That was a joke.) They also have a blush-free hardener with a medium cure time of 30 mins at room temperature. This hardener adds around $30 to the price of a 6-gallon kit ($264 for regular; $298 for high-tess) . So you can either pay $30 for no blush or $30 for Scotch-brite pads. However, seeing as how I'll be doing this in another three weeks in the blazing mid-Atlantic, summer sun, the less time I have to scrub ANYTHING, the better.

Mike, I've definitely checked out FGCI.com, and yes, their prices are hard to beat. What their site is short on is I-N-F-O-R-M-A-T-I-O-N about their products. In fact, if you go to the FAQs page, there are no FAQs. Oversights like that make me very suspicious of a company's quality and attention to detail. Still, if you've not had any problems in 12 years of hard-core yard work, I'm far more willing to listen to a single testimonial like that than every piece of literature and scientific study published by OSHA or anyone else. And even a bonehead like me couldn't screw up a 1:1 mix, which is a very good thing.

Also guys, I am running under the impression that colloidal silica is the thickener of choice when rebedding the core. Please tell me that I got at least that right?

Noah's is indeed cheaper than anyone else I've found. I was going to go with Nidacore, but I see that I can get 3/8" Core-cell for $94/sheet from them which makes for less than $300 for a whole new deck core. Thanks again!

Tangentially, has anyone had an NEGATIVE experiences with Raka epoxy? The six-gallon kit with slow hardener is more than $100 cheaper than the West 4.89 (or whatever) gallon kit.

Fair winds,

Jeremy

She and I will be headed back to the Outer Banks of NC for summer work and outfitting before heading farther south as the weather dictates.

The Top Picks So Far (in no real order):

1. Jezebel – 1938 Bette Davis film
2. Ms. Johnson – My Granny (small, tough as nails and took care of me)
3. Maverick – Just my generally contrary personality
4. Tarantella – A fast Italian dance in 6/8 time (very NOT Ariel-like)
5. Too Tweaky – Also my high-strung self. "Tweaky" is also my cat's name.
6. Sprezzatura – "effortless mastery"
7. Fidelio – Beethoven's opera about mankind's triumph over tyranny
8. Momus - God of laughter, adverse criticism, faultfinding, mockery and pleasantry.
9. Brizo – Protectress of mariners, sailors and fishermen.
10. Terpsichore – Muse of Music and Dance
11. Astraeus – Keeper of the Winds, a Titan

Your vote counts!

Sorry Ebb! I neglected to mention Calder and Vigor in my original list! I have the former's Cruising Handbook and I read Vigor's books almost two years ago when I originally started feeling cabin fever at my job. Out of everything Vigor has written, the renaming ceremony is probably my favorite.

Interesting that you speak of Seiffert so highly. I have his Offshore Sailing Tips, and while there is A LOT of great information, his "style" of sailing, if you will, is very, very different from what I'll be doing. His knowledge (and advice) stems from racing very well-outfitted, high-dollar yachts with unlimited budgets. I'm certainly all for eating well, but I don't think that I'll ever be able to make any of the recipes he includes in the last chapter! Beef wellington? On a sailboat?! When all is said and done, the Pardeys are my gurus: seamanlike, practical, cheap. What else do you need?

As for the choice of an Ariel, that's easy. I am one person only, and one that is 5'5" and 125 lbs, so size and handling capability were premium considerations. Also, I learned from my Paceship 26 what a cruising boat should NOT be. So I swore that my next boat would be heavy displacement, full keel, decent chain locker, low freeboard, built like a tank, and PRETTY. Never to be forgotten is that big boats cost more to buy and a LOT more to maintain. In fact, maintenance costs increase at the cube rate of the waterline length.

So with those parameters, the list got pretty short pretty fast: Pearson Ariel, Bristol 24, Cape Dory 25, Seafarer Meridian, Contessa 26. There are others that fit the bill(Bristol Channel Cutter, Allied Seawind, Cape Dory 25D), but they're just a TAD out of my budget. Don't strike me dead, but the Contessa was my first choice, but ONLY because of the outboard rudder, a feature that makes repair and windvane installation a breeze. But when all was said and done, an Ariel came to me for the right price at the right time, and I would have been a real bonehead to pass it up.

The hardest part I'm finding is coming up with a name!!! I made the mistake of soliciting suggestions, and my friends are mighty creative. So now I have 120 really good names!! Oh the pain!

Fair winds!

J.