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The dilemma around bow pulpits and stern rails is ongoing for me.  I have a bow pulpit on Cup O' Tea IV and it's staying there.  But the stern....hmmm.  

Sometimes when I'm hanging out over the lazarette fussing with the enginge or rigging or something else and the boat is bucking like a bronco on these Long Island Sound waves - it sure does seem desirable.

At 6'3", guidelines are, for me, something to grab pretty late in the game.  Probably on the way overboard and too late to do much good.  Practically have to bend in half to reach them.  That said, for kid sailors they sure do seem desirable.

So I went online in search of a pushpit.  Found one fairly quickly from those boys up in Maine.  But...I just can't pull the trigger.  There's something about that clean, open Commander stern that just screams Alberg without the extra hardware putting a period on an otherwise never ending sentence.

Ariels, on the other hand, seem more "established" and welcome the extra chromeware.

Just my 2 cents...

Scott

Here's the final product.  Lewmar 16 self tailers - which barely fit on the winch pads.  Prior to mounting, I filled the holes from the old Southeasts with epoxy/filler and smeared vinylester putty (thanks Mike Goodwin!) up underneath and all over the exposed fiberglas cloth on the underside of the pads to reinforce.  Used a drill bit to form pockets in the dried putty base for the 1/4 washers required.  1/4 lock nuts and they're ready to go.

Went for the Lewmar winch grease to re-assemble the parts.  $17 a tube but you use very little.  Same for the pawl oil.  Important to not overdo it with the grease, which attracts dirt and can end up in the pawls - preventing them from releasing properly.

For anyone who's had problems getting the colletts in in the final stage - just lift the main spindle up around 5mm with your index finger and snug them right in there and you can get the feeder arm back on.

BTW - in my winch odyssey I came across the One Touch winch handle.  I went to visit inventor Don Steiner up in CT.  He licensed his design to Lewmar who made a metal version - but his composite version is lighter and better IMOO.  The entire handle arm is a big button.  When you're ready to unlock it from the winch and move to another winch - you just grab the arm and go.  Here's the website:  http://www.onetouchhandle.com/

Great - can't wait to give it a try.   Love to see your yacht sometime - I'm in Naragansett every summer at least once.  Thanks,  Scott

Great Bill - thanks.  What's behind that screw - the old bearing?  fiberglass?  the shaft?  I'm thinking to whatever damage I might do in the process.

I'm all set to put my new rudder bearing in BUT - I can only get two of the set screws out.of the chrome cap and so can't remove it.   The third one is facing almost due aft and is pretty stripped by PO I guess.  Can't get around there with an Allen or hex or anything else to get it out.  Anyone else run into this and tackled it?:confused:

It took them awhile to get back to me but "the word" on mounting winches is LifeCaulk or some similar adhesive bedding compound in the mounting screw holes and that's it.

That said, I had already given up waiting to hear from them so I did the screw holes and a bead around the perimiter - leaving a 1.5" gap right under the small gear spindle so that any water that ends up under the base can drain or evaporate out.  It seems to be working in tests.

A couple of tips from a guy who's been bedding his brains out for the past couple of weeks - I place the bedded object and then tape around it - be careful about the speed at which you pull up the tape when you're finished - too slow or too fast can cause a mess - I use vinyl gloves extensively - using my fingers to smooth and mold the goop into position.  I keep a Windex bottle full of tap water handy - spraying the goop speeds curing once you have the it where you want it - this has the advantage of fiinishing the job faster and reducing the mess.  Finally, I go back around the edges and the hardware and clean it and the surrounding area with Interlux 202 which seems to to a better and faster job than the Remover product or Solvent product that Life Caulk sells.

ebb wrote:  "The Andersen's have a large opening in the center of a heavy cast mounting base with total exposure to the interior gears.  Really a very large washer!  Two sraight channels with very little height are cast into the ring plate. I'd make sure the plate is mounted so the channels drain.  Channels is a very big word for some very small drain races."

The Lewmars have a plastic gear retainer (Don Casey's word) at the center of the base that sounds similar - the fit is loose enough (it just lays against the base in a shallow indentation) for water to get through.  But then that water has to go somewhere -

Drain races are exactly what I'm looking for and the Lewmar's don't have them as far as I can tell.

A split hard gasket would do it I guess - but I'd have to perfect the pad surface - and I want to go sailing at this point.

It's amazing how little is written on this subject...

ebb wrote:  An alternative is to drill the winch holes only thru the cabin roof (and not thru the interior liner) and squirt in the gel from the top. Probably easier. Then drill thru.

Just saw this, ebb and will do it exactly that way - creates a nice epoxy puck.

thx

Thanks, gents.  I'm mounting the winches to the original fiberglass pads which I have renovated and reinforced (on the inside with a 1/4" of vinylester putty).  So, I'm not too worried about protecting the top of the pad - more about providing a good even mounting surface.

BUT - I cannot for the life of me find the drainage channels you speak of.  (Lewmar calls them drain holes) The base of the winch is as flat as can be.  There are two holes.  One where the output gear spindle comes down thru and and one at the bottom of the main spindle (there's a little plastic plate that Lewmar fails to name which is loose enough to let water dribble through) - but no slots or channels etched into bottom of the the base itself.

Apparently your winches have said channels/slots?

The boat's original winches - which I'm replacing - have completely flat base bottoms as well.

Are we talking about water escaping from under the winch base - or down throught the mechanisms and out throught the housing (drum).

The drum does have what look like gear teeth around the inner perimeter of the inside on the bottom which would let water out of the winch - and I could see that someone doing a really sloppy job could obstruct those with over-oozed bedding -  but no obvious channel for water to drain out from under the base.  

Am I missing something here?:confused:

I actually like the idea of making a gasket but that would seem to make the drainage situation worse if the water is supposed to travel under the base.

I've thought that I could leave a toothpick in the bedding bead around the perimter of the base and then pull it out after the bedding cures a bit to create a small weep hole where moisture and water could escape.  Thoughts on that?

Imagine my surprise after following the installation directions on my incredibly expensive and brand new Lewmar self tailers to find that the bedding compound they say to put on the base of the winch for attaching to the winch pads had pushed up into the gear assembly! :eek: Life Caulk adhesive caulking in the gears - great.

So, I disassembled the winches from the pads and took the winches apart completely and cleaned and re-lubed them and am ready to start over.

Does anyone have any suggestions about bedding?  The jib winches that came on my boat show no signs of any bedding or bedding residue - looks like they just bolted them onto the pads as is.

The instructions also mention drain holes in the winch base.  Well, if there's bedding compound all the way around the base, how will the water that drains down through the winch escape?

No bedding on the winch pads wouldn't seem to be a problem since any water that comes through the pad will simply drip onto the deck.  However -
I'm installing a winch on the cabin - as per many of the photos on the site - and that involves through bolts to the cabin where leakage would be bad.

I suppose I could bed just the perimter of the winch base and work out a little drainage canal in one spot?  Anyone ever done this before???

Install a smaller head machine screw (probably a #12 FHMS or even a RHMS with a small diameter washer under the head*).  flatten the area around the hole and glue a piece of mahogany on top UV varnish should protect the epoxy glue holding this unconventional 'feather' strip repair.

Bolted, the nuts and washers are inside.  just remove the nuts and lift the rail with the bolt off the cabin. don't need access thru the top.
Epoxy on the fastening head will help set the screw and insure watertightness there.

That's the ticket!  Brewer's nearby has plenty 'o mahogany scraps.  

This process belongs on the "classics" list.

Nice one, Ebb.

Maybe ale is the answer.

These are the original 45 year old rails.  Adequate but not as hefty as today's versions.  I've decided to go with them for the aesthetics for now but I can forsee replacing them down the road.

The way Pearson set them up on my Commander is with carraige bolts down through the end legs and bolted in the cabin (with a finishing washer) and then wood screws screwing up from and through the cabin liner into the middle two support legs.

As you describe - I've put flat head bolts in the two ends now and they don't really sit in the existing counter sunk holes very well.  I thought of going to an oval head (that's what was on there orinigally) instead of the flat-heads I went with for convenience (local shop has them) - but the oval heads have their own issues since they raise up out of the wood.   I was concerned with messing with the holes but it didn't occur to me to grind the bolt head instead.

On the other hand - instead of making the hole bigger (in an already skimpy rail) why not - as you suggest - look for a bolt with a smaller head that will fit down in the hole and then wood plug it.  That would keep the water out which is what the polysulfide question regarding filling the bolt hole was all about.  Nicer look too...

On it this weekend...thanks again.

Got it, Ebb - thanks.

The wood is rock hard.  No rot.  Never been disassembled.  So we're good there, I think.

I am really parranoid, but I don't think I'll through-bolt it.  I'll just go with those big nasty 3" #12s (after measuring).

While we're on the subject.  On the wooden hand rails.  The bolts on the two ends (the middle two screw in from the cabin out) they really didn't counter sink enough to allow for a bung.  And 10 coats of Epiphanes later, I'm loathe to start modifying the holes (just want to get in the water at this point) I'm planning to fill the bolt hole with polysulfide.  Any thoughts?

Thanks Rico and Ebb.

Nothing like a little terminology to clear up the picture, Ebb.  Blocks and rabbets.

I will do the toothpick forensics because it looks to me like there is room in the rabbet joint of the block for a deeper penetration from the fastening screw - even though the angle they have it going in at looks like it could end up in a crack if it goes too far.   I think BoltDepot maxes out on slotted oval
#12s at 3" so that may be the best I can do.

The hole tapers are what's keeping the #14s I have from going in there, so I think the idea of going to #12s is a good one.  As far as I can tell the screw holes) have never been messed with so hopefully (not a good word to use in boat building) they will be nice and tight and will take the original screw size.  

I always assemble for disassembly but it's tempting to put some adhesive in that rabbet joint - although Pearson just had silicone in there, which I removed when I reconditioned them.

Wow - that's some spanking clean cabin you have there, Mike.  Something to aspire to!

I have the screws that attach those pieces to the cabin (my Commander actually attaches them with 3 instead of  4 like yours)  - I'm after the screws that attach them on the other side to the long cockpit coaming planks.

I've tried to use the screw size that attaches the coaming planks to the cockpit (#14 2.5") but the don't fit in there and don't seem long enough.

I'm wondering if they are like #12 3"  or something.  Can't find them anywhere.

Scott