Messages

I bought a used sail from someone in Minneapolis whose Commander was totaled after a lightning strike.  His report is instructive...

As for lightning (the class of the first sailboat I owned), It was frightening to see pockmarks all about the hull at every place there was a wave peak when the bolt hit, while the boat was moored in 25' of water on the St. Croix.  The areas with the chain plates were especially hard hit as the charge jumped from the plates, thru the glass at the waterline...I could put a key 3" into the delamination at the bow; amidships the scoop out of the hull was the size of a golf ball.  The lateral damage from the travel of the bolt from amidship plates to the hull pass throughs and on to the motor mounts was frightening.  It is a tribute to the old fashioned construction techniques of Pearson's glass lay-up that she didn't sink.  I saw a cored Hunter in a yard hit by the same storm that received $15,000 worth of damage.  There they were removing 1'x 2' pieces of glass - with that same golf ball sized scorch mark - that looked like the black aftermath of a grass fire on the resin impregnated interior layer.

Dave!

I thought I remembered your mentioning the repair pre-dated your ownership.  Despite your strength upgrade, I can't help but wonder when the retrofit will fail.  I worry the halyard will start to cut through the sheave and bind (probably nylon vs delrin).  Too, the whole mess looks to be under a tremendous strain when the sail falls on the opposite side of the sheave.  A new block seems the solution.

Regarding your experinces up the mast: I got 35 lbs on Wayne suggesting he's the fool in the bosun's chair and I'm the grunt at the winch.  Watch the 11:00 news for updates.

I remain optimistic someone has a line on a main halyard sheave, no?

I too need to replace the main halyard sheave.  It'd dead to the extent that Dave (or the owner before him?) replaced it with a cheek block bolted to the side of the mast.  Not ideal but it works.  But I can only wonder for how long...

The manual says the pulley has a 6-1/2" OD and 1/2" hole.  I found nothing on the web matching those dimensions.  Has anyone replaced the sheave?  Where did you find the replacement?  Did you drop the mast?  

I'd like to leave the mast up but see the side stays attach to same bolt the sheave rotates around.  That means sheave replacement requires sidestay removal.  I'm a bit reluctant to send Wayne to the top of the mast only to remove half the standing rigging.

Any thoughts?

I bought a new 150% genoa for a Catalina 25 (standard rig) from National Sails and am very pleased.  Their responded to my questions about their sails:


Thank you for your inquiry.
 
The Catalina 25 std rig hank-on genoas are built to the standard dimensions of luff 29.5, leech 27.85 and foot 17.37.
 
These sails include leech lines with cleats, hanks on luff, tell tales and sail bags, are priced new at $511, and are in stock and available for immediate delivery.
 
To order you can call, fax or email with your shipping and payment details (we accept all major credit cards) or you can use our secure online order form via our website //www.nationalsail.com (click on "sails for catalinas")
 
Thanks again and we look forward to being of service,
Dirk Sharland
National Sail Supply (Rolly Tasker Sails, Florida)
14042 Marquette Blvd.
Fort Myers, FL 33905
//www.nationalsail.com
Toll Free (within US) 1-800-611-3823
Outside US 239-693-1896
Fax 239-693-5504


Obviously, the dimensions differ a bit from the Commander, but you'll need a custom sail to get an exact match.  It'll fit a bit better but at twice the cost.  Just not worth it to me.  I found National Sails freindly, professional and worthy of repeat business.  Highly recommended.  Some possible online sources for used sails...

http://www.usedsails.com/
http://thesailwarehouse.com
http://www.mastheadsailinggear.com/

Dave B,

Decision probably Bainbridge by now if not further south.  No. 301 looked different enough from No. 280 that I'd like to get over your side of the pond and check out some of the particulars this winter.  You have a nice boat.  Keep in touch.

Dave & Dave,

Commander 280 may be sitting in Kingston as we speak, the boat is on a return trip from Victoria BC.  I bailed out at Port Townsend so Wayne is soloing back to Vashon - he should be half way between PT and Vashon about now.  Incidentally, we saw a Commander in Port Townsend going for $10,000, nice boat, no idea of the number but I think the sign said 1967...

Dave W - I still have that bronze seacock lever and have every intention of returning it.  I tried mailing it once but it came back undeliverable for inexplicable reasons.  Try emailing your address again or I can drop off at your Triton next time I go north.  I've had no luck remembering to draw up the tiller.  Is that still a priority?

Also bought a new sail, a genoa for a Catalina 25 std rig, less than $550 shipped.  Fits very well and more manageable to get around the mast than the 180% monster that came with the boat.  Purchased from National Sail Supply (Rolly Tasker Sails, Florida) at //www.nationalsail.com.  Nice product, nice people.  I recommend them.

Don Morrison appears to have sold the two sails he had left.  Sounds like a missed opportunity.

Also got a price from Hogin (below) that's about 10 or 20% better than the handful of local inquiries I've made around Seattle (NOT counting the association discount).  Here's his number:

   main 6.5 oz premium dacron                                 $ 1140.00
   each reef                                                               $  163.00
   class jib 6.5 dacron                                               $  665.00
   genoa 155% 3.8 oz dacron                                   $  885.00
   spinn 3/4 oz nylon                                                 $1042.00
   plus about $60 shipping for 3 sails
We specialise in Cruising sails and have developed a light, very strong and durable construction. We triple stitch, use a leech doubler up past the highest reef and down past the reinforcements at the head, bring the leech line out at each reef with cleats, and reinforce at the inner ends of the batten pockets. All slides are webbed on and the sail comes with tapered battens, bag, insignia, numbers and cunningham. delivery in about 2 or 3 weeks. If you are an association member you get 20% off these prices. If you have any questions please contact me.
510 523 4388
bob hogin

Bob strikes me as the go-to guy.

Dave, thanks much.  You come through on this and I've a pair of oars on my workbench we can start negotiating with...  This helps my inquiry in the "Off Topics" forum.  Also, I saw a jib described by four dimensions, is that 4th number the 'J' measurement?  Keep me posted,

Toby

I need used jibs, both working and genoa.  Current inventory made up of worn or ill-fitting sails scavenged from other boats.  Does anyone have some not-too-blown-out sails they'd love to get rif of? I'm hoping some of Bay-area racer has a garage full of sails past their racing prime but still adequate for years of less demanding use.

What have people found for new sails (good experiences with sailmakers, costs, etc.)

Scott,

I bought Dave's Commander (280) when he picked up a Triton.  The boat came with no engine and two oars. Dave made no modifications to the boat for paddling; he simply wrapped 1/4" line around the oars where they rested on the combing to limit rubbing. He fashioned a loop at the cord's end and draped it over the winches to secure the oar. Seemed to work, but as the loops stretched, the oar control became a bit sloppyl.  I always thought the best solution would be to have a freind with a machine shop make an oar lock that dropped into the splined socket on top of the winch.  Probably a very expensive answer to a very inexpensive idea.

As far as actually using the oars, they work swell under windless conditions but, as Dave can attest, spell trouble to windward (can you say breakwater?).  Dave still wants his oars back and being fat, lazy and 40, I'm inclined to return them (for a small fee) and go with a motor.

Tell me more about grounding plates – we don't see lightning in the pacific NW.  In fact, the risk of a lightning strike is so low that the Commander is the first boat I've ever seen with every hunk of above-water metal wired back to the battery's ground.  And that's where it ends too: someone yanked the inboard (and all the extraneous hardware) long ago, so the grounding wires all end at the battery.  Also, we replaced the bronze seacocks and thru-hulls with plastic, so we're not grounded through that path.  My question:  If I don't want to screw with copper plates on the bottom of the hull, what danger is posed leaving the battery connected to the ground terminal?  It seems if I'm sleeping on a boat that's struck by lightning, an exploding battery might be the least of my problems.  Any thoughts?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Check out the boat's name.

I'm wondering if anyone has offset lines and numbers for their Commander/Ariel.  I suspect one could gleen this info from Alberg's original drawing included in the manual, but free advice is always preferred.  Reason being is my boat's co-owner is a closet naval architect and wants to see how the hull looks and behaves on a computer screen.  If it's any incentive, I'm sure he'd be happy to share whatever interesting facts he unearths with the owners' group.  Thanks much for any help.

I kind of thought I'd get that response.  Outboard is not a long term solution so I don't want to expend too much time or money.  Likely start with an old Chrysler Sailor 6hp, maybe 75 pounds, a pain to start, and a throttle that doesn't always stay where I'd like it to.  Access to motor controls therefore fairly important.  Any tips on beefing up the transom, backing plates, etc.?  Thanks again.

I recently bought an engineless Commander that came from the factory with an Atomic 4.  When time, money and motivation converge, I will likely replace the lost engine.  Until then, it's an outboard.  Two options are presented (1) mount the thing on the transom, or (2) cut a hole through the hull and cabbage together some kind of outboard well in the lazarette.  

I read the organization's manual and the dangers of transom-mounted outboards, so it seems the the motor should go in the lazarette.  This presents a few questions: how does one go about installing the well in the lazarette?  Have any members done this?  Does anyone have patterns for this type of work?  I'm a bit leery of sawing a hole in the hull and wonder what words of caution people can share.