Messages

In your drawing I don't see anything like bilge access under the cockpit, just the engine location for the on-board power model.  If you regularly have water in the  bilge I'd recommend you find the leak now.  I very occasionally get water when it is raining and the wind is blowing directly into the air scoop in the bow.  Otherwise I'm dry with the exception of condensation within the interior when temp/humidity changes a lot.  Slow leaks are insidious and often do long term damage to structural areas that are very hard to repair.

Mike,
I not sure what you are looking for.  I have three openings in the cabin sole: one forward of the compression post and two aft of the post. That's all I know of.  You can see all the way to the bottom of the bilge from the third opening.

I've seen several locations for batteries in various Commanders.  The terminal strip is usually (not always) on the starboard side mounted on the interior of cockpit wall.  I originally found my battery in the starboard cockpit locker just aft of the terminal strip.  I've seen them under the cockpit floor behind the wall between the cabin and the stern. To me both those locations made the batteries hard to move and service.  I relocated mine to a battery box in the cabin under the bridge deck just aft of the ladder.  I have it strapped to the wall.  It puts it low and centered in the boat and is easy to get too when needed.

Does this help?

Does anyone have an asymmetrical spinnaker for sale that will fit a standard Commander rig?

I may be selling my Commander this spring.  I'm across the Patapsco on Jones Creek.  Where did you advertise besides here? I'm headed the same way you are.  I want to do more longer races on weekends and looking for a faster boat that can find a class where I can be competitive.
Thanks,

Are the ACYA Yacht Scale numbers on the right equivalent to the Loos Gauge numbers on the left?  Does this mean the forestay should be at 1200 lbs?  That seems awfully high.

We have a shelf starboard of the well for a small gas tank.  We lay the motor head against that and the drive end below it.  Might get level at worst in big weather.  Been doing it for years and the motor just keeps running.  When racing we lash the head to the compression post so it won't shift around.

Alberg/Pearson designed a plug to fill the well when the outboard was removed.  I find that it's worth half a knot to have it in when racing particularly in winds 10+. There used be a a thread about a member that made a form from which to duplicate the plug.  I don't think you have a weight or balance problem. Heeled over the waterline is above the edge of the opening for the OB.  It messes up the water flow and creates drag as well as filling the laz with 5-10 gallons of water.  The plug makes an amazing difference.  If your OB is hanging off the transom the situation is much worse.  I use an old Johnson 5HP that weighs 45 lbs.  We pull it, put in the plug and lay it in the laz for day-sailing.  Racing, we put it in the cabin to get as much weight low as we can.

Natty Boh't is on land at Young's in Edgemere.  I had some health problems (all taken care of ) and some other projects that got in the way.  I'll be in by July.  I'm taking the opportunity to take care of some long-term maintenance issues.  North Point Sailing Association is racing Wednesday nights.  Start is at PW8 off of Sparrows Point at 6:30.  They would welcome you unannounced any Wednesday.  I might be on the committee boat.  Sailing instructions can be downloaded from their website http://www.npsaweb.com/.

Polars are not overkill if you are racing PHRF against bigger boats with lower ratings that are using polars.  It's how you keep up.

Kyle,
Do you still have that stern pulpit?  I'm in Baltimore but occasionally makes trips to Chicago to visit family. Thanks.

As a former Commander rookie I have two pieces of advice:
Buy the book from this group: it's worth every penny.
Use google to search the forum.  The site's search tool is a bit dull.

Just to add to the trim issue: I use a 60's vintage 6HP Johnson which drives my Commander as well as the 9 HP Johnson that came with the boat.  It weighs 45 pounds. We pull the motor and insert the plug when we race.  The trim is not as good when we leave the motor laying on its side in the lazerette.  It makes a noticeable difference to haul it below into the cabin.  I think moving it forward makes more of a difference than moving it low.  

If you must do this at least get a much lighter motor.  Worst Marine used to carry a 5HP Mercury that I've seen other Ariel owners use (although none had it on the transom).  They were happy with that.  Make sure you get a long shaft.  Hung out that far aft you'll be spinning free more than you think when you get into rollers.  You'd be surprised how quickly you can overheat in steady rollers when the cooling water is intermittent due to the shaft being out of the water as the bow goes up and down.

just left you a private message.

How beat up is the one you have?  Once soaked in the water it may be just fine.

Roy,
Take this with a grain of Chesapeake Bay salt but here's what I think happened.  This comes from my personal experience with Commanders and seeing others over-engineer boats.

These boats were designed to be driven by a 2-4hp outboard that was to be removed from the well during sailing.  Each boat came with a plug to fill the well and fair the bottom under sail.  Lots of contemporary skippers want a bigger motor, more speed under power, and don't want to deal with the in-and-out.  They put in a motor between 9 and 15 hp with electric start and including batteries and big gas tanks (more of that "boom" potential) in the lazarette. This significantly overloads the stern. From a sailing point of view this also seriously messes up the dynamics of the sail plan.  My guess is that something like this happened to your boat.

Here's the important point.  VERY IMPORTANT!  Water still cannot get from the lazerette forward into the bilge even if the boat is seriously wallowing.  The bilge is walled off by one solid bulkhead unless it has been breached. What can happen is that the top of those scupper thru-hull tubes can get below the waterline. In normal flat trim the tops of the tubes are above the water line (the one for the galley is not).  That can allow the hose joint to leak all the time not just when the boat is heeled.  I think that is where your water came from over time.    

How to fix?  Get a lighter outboard. Rope start is good exercise. three gallons of gas can take a sailor far.  Replace those hoses since they are likely to be old and exposed to a lot of water/ice who knows what.  DOUBLE CLAMP THE HOSE JOINTS.  Then, and only then, put GitRot on the plywood.  That rot is not in a structurally significant place. I might not even bother.   The rot is an indicator of a potentially boat-sinking leak.  Finally, go to the library and get a copy of The Art of Zen and Motorcycle Maintanence.  The author beautifully makes the point that one cannot expect machines to be something they were not designed for.  The designer of these boats saw motors as a necessary evil to get a sailboat out of an unnatural environment: a marina.  Once in open waters he intended the owner to put up the sails and sail.  I was on a mooring for a while and used to sail off.  What a joy. Get the boat safe.  Go sailing.