Ariel & Commander Owners

I have a 9.9 Yamaha outboard on the stern of Wayward Star.
Though it has been an excellent outboard,  it is for the most part only used to get out of a jam or in and out of a tight harbor.
We never liked the weight on the stern, though we had a sturdy backing plate.
Tom had always raised it out of the water. Now, since he is no longer with us, I have had to deal with it alone.I can raise it all the way up, but it is too heavy for me to tilt it out of the water. And I don't want the shaft left in the water. So the present situation is unacceptable for  me .
Ideally, I would get another inboard.
Realistically , I want a quick fix. So I thought I would get a smaller outboard to go on the stern, But then I am reading here about the outboard well.
I'd like info on this well. If the boat didn't come with an out board, then I quess we are talking major alterations back there?
And if you are out in rough waters and need some headway, I can't imagine having the stern locker  hatch open. Am I missing something? Would appreciate some feedback.

Inboard model boats had no "well" in the lazarette.  Having one installed would likely not be a major operation, but it would be a good idea to have another boat to look at.  

A Commander (same hull) sailed from Southern California to the Med with an outboard.  In fact, I believe the engine was left in place and the well open, even in storms.  Not sure I would be comfortable with that.  We ran the story in the Newsletter last year (check your back issues).  Still, for an ocean voyage, I would go for the inboard if you can afford it.  Around here, the cost is about $6k using a new Yanmar Diesel.  
BTW - The manual has an engine hoist in the appendix that would help you getting the outboard in and out of the well.  

See the outboard discussion elsewhere for info on a light weight replacement.

If you run a short loop of line to the metal handle of the engine, it will give you more leverage in pulling the engine up, and you dont have to lean over the stern so much. I learned this trick on a boat I rented in San Diego once.

I would also make sure the outboard engine bracket and tilt mechanism on the outboard is nicely greased up.

I assume the engine bracket has a good torsion spring to make lifting the engine easier.

As far as tilting the engine goes, maybe a loop of line around the back of the engine might help. Naturally, you dont want any line that could dangle in the water and foul the prop.

I'm just trying to think of the easiest fix first. A Yamaha 9.9 is a great engine. If you go with a smaller outboard, someday you might regret it.  No way would I recommend major surgery to cut out an engine well.

West Marine sells a outboard engine tilter that hooks on to the top of the engine cover ($55.00) But, it doesnt look great to me.

There was a newsletter article about the dangers of hanging an ob on the transom of an Ariel or Commander.  One of our West Coast members almost went overboard in some choppy conditions trying to reach the engine.  In addition, the prop of the transom mounted engine kept coming out of the water in even less rough conditions.  After that experience, they put the engine back in the well.  Transom mounting is ok if conditions are "normal," but things can get dangerous if conditions turn ugly.

Somebody at my boat yard had the same idea for a lifting handle. Looks like he braided some three strand line and used a bit of hose for the handle.

Thanks for the suggestions, comments, recommendations.

I agree the immediate solution will be a devise to help me lift and tilt that OB.
 
I use to call that 9.9 Yamaha  "our baby".  She started up no problem after YEARS of minimal use. Now, since I found I can't manage the engine alone, she is  referred to  as "the  monster".
 Long term, I'm leaning heavily on reinstalling an inboard.  Thinking a 1 -cylinder Yenmar would be sufficient.?  

Another alteration I want to make is to be able to raise and lower the sails from the cockpit.  Anything to help me single hand this boat.  I'm looking for EASIER and SAFER ways of doing things.

And...I am looking for some type of self steering mechanism.

And....And...   And...

OK, for these next subjects, let's start a couple of new threads:

1- Self Steering
2 - Cockpit led sail controls

I recently bought an engineless Commander that came from the factory with an Atomic 4.  When time, money and motivation converge, I will likely replace the lost engine.  Until then, it's an outboard.  Two options are presented (1) mount the thing on the transom, or (2) cut a hole through the hull and cabbage together some kind of outboard well in the lazarette.  

I read the organization's manual and the dangers of transom-mounted outboards, so it seems the the motor should go in the lazarette.  This presents a few questions: how does one go about installing the well in the lazarette?  Have any members done this?  Does anyone have patterns for this type of work?  I'm a bit leery of sawing a hole in the hull and wonder what words of caution people can share.

The last Good Old Boat magazine contains an article by James Baldwin showing how he cut out a motor well for an Islander 28. Very nice work, but a major project.

This may be blasphemy, but I would probably go with a transom mount with your situation. Maybe get one of those throttle arm extensions I've seen in the West Marine catalog.

I kind of thought I'd get that response.  Outboard is not a long term solution so I don't want to expend too much time or money.  Likely start with an old Chrysler Sailor 6hp, maybe 75 pounds, a pain to start, and a throttle that doesn't always stay where I'd like it to.  Access to motor controls therefore fairly important.  Any tips on beefing up the transom, backing plates, etc.?  Thanks again.

I once saw another Commander with an inboard engine on stands in a local yard.  I looked at it out of curiousity.  It seem as though the well plug had been glassed in...there were faint lines were the well would exit.

I would check your lazarette to see how thay filled that hole...The hole had to exist in the molds

Anyone have a plug for his/her outboard well?  Is it made to be easily removed and replaced?  How is it constructed?  What holds it securely in place?  Does it keep water out of the OB well?  Is there any noticable difference in how the boat moves through the water with the OB well plugged?  I am thinking about constructing a plug for the opening and would appreciate any input or photos.  Thanks.

Someone was going to reproduce the plug from an original, but ran into physical problems from inhaling too many of those esthers, or whatever.  Click on the search button above and enter outboard well plug, or variations, and you should find the information.

Back on 6-19-03, after Bill's response, I went back and searched the previous posts for information on the plug for the outboard well.  I could have sworn there were some photos posted but I cannot find them again.  Does anyone have photos of their outboard well plug available to post?  I'd love to see views of the plug installed and by itself.
Thanks in advance.

I will get some photos of the plug when I'm at the boat on Saturday, and then post them here.  If someone else does not post first.

have a plug that won't be used again.

It's about a cubic foot or more of skewed polyester/glass coated foam.

Don't know the materials, it may even be original with repairs.  It fairs to the bottom.  Post some measurements if yer interested.  You pay for the shipping and it's yours.

Here is a few views of the plug from Adele M.  Appears to be original, built-up fiberglass.

And..

And..

And finally..

Looks like the real thing to me :p

I know a fellow who is looking at an Ariel right now...he's an engineless type, and as such won't be using the well as a well. Anyone ever thought about pulling a mold off one of these? I know someone who could use a part...
Dave

I have got a mold half pulled, my health is back, just not any time to work. I haven't set foot on #45 in over a week. I may work on it this weekend if the weather co-ops . I need to make 2, one for #45 and one for Commander 105, I might make 5 or 6 extra if I get on a roll and dont have to go to the ER.

Makes alot more sense that the plug is hollow
which could make it useful for other purposes
and easier to store as well.

338s's, being solid foam is therefor not
original, or at least suspect.

Ebb,

Yes, 338's plug is suspect. :)  Factory plugs are "hollow" fiberglass structures.

Hi, I know this is an old thread but hopefully someone can answer.  I am interested in creating this plug. What is it made out of? How would I go about making one or even finding a used one?  Thanks, Rob

Best suggestion I have is to find one to copy.  All outboard model Ariels and Commanders have them

This is not a How To -- but I spent a bunch of time making molds in that well.

You could say the well itself is the mold,  and if you are handy with epoxy anf

fiberglass you can use it to make your plug.  I'd plan to line the surface of the

well with, maybe, 1/16" cardboard or 1/8".  Then coat it with too much wax.

Hang your strips of cloth fron the top  flat (don't worry about the attactment

places yet,  you'll scroll them out with a jigsaw)  You will also have closed the

bottom off with a piece of waxed doorskin to glass over and create the bottom.

ETC good luick.

Hey Rob,
I have one and I am happy to work with you on dimensions to create one.  You could work up a box form and go to town with fiberglass.

Thanks for the offer! I'm not sure which method would be better.  Create a box and go to town or ebb's method of using the actual well to create the plug.  By the way I think it's worth asking Does anyone have a plug that I can buy? Also, I am wondering if my deep shaft outboard will fit in the stern locker when the plug is in and/or where do you put the outboard when using it?  I know I can find out when I unwrap the boat but just wondering what people do with their outboard when using the plug if it doesn't fit.  Seems like it wont.

Should be room for the engine head on port and prop behind the gas tank on starboard.  However, when sailing it's recommended that the engine be on the cabin sole with the head in the companion doorway.  Otherwise water in the engine can migrate to the bearings below the engine's head when the boat is healed going to weather.

Thanks Bill.  Just to clarify, the engine laid down on the cabin sole?  Not sure what "with the head in the companion doorway" means?

AH H  H!  Those were the days -- when I crewed for the Admiral
weekend racing.  [actually Bill was teaching me how to sail]
There were three of us aboard and the stern ran low to the water,
you  could see lapping just below the well.
Bill was invariably in the companionway making sure we started the
race exactly on time and rounded the cans on the proper side.  Also
was in charge of when the sandwiches came out, being he is the
skipper of MaiTai, the yellow avenger of the racing fleet.


After we left the estuary and raised the sails,  the OB was lifted out of
the well and placed down below with the motor at the steps, the prop
laid pointing forward.  The lazaret became quite wet under the hatch.
The motor was a 6-2, I believe, and was  manageable even tho it had
to be handed thru the c'way. I don't remember smelling gasoline below.

But I do remember thinking,  it's the damnedest thing that the motor
has to come out because it's a drag when it isn't running.  It made us
officially an engineless racer.  But I don't think it mattered.


The only sailors that always won were Ed Ekers and Ernie Rideout.  
Don't know if they were motorless, or where they kept their Ariel, but
they always seemed accompanied by a bevy of angels.


_______________________________________________________
Could say  consequences led me to cut a slot in the Ariel's transom
to be able to raise the OB shaft out of the water.  And given where the
hinge is placed, a good way above the water.  Another story,  much of
which can be found here in these forums.






'

"head in the doorway" -- the power head of the ob should be facing forward and over the center of the keel. (If you have a Commander, there's no door.)   Lay the ob on the side the mfg specifies.  As Ebb noted, if left in the ob well while sailing things can get pretty wet.

I stowed my 6-4 Merc in the laz, but 'twere a royal pain to put in/take out while underway even on flat water, without smashing meaty body parts between hard boat/motor parts in the process. Always wanted to try one of the folding Garhauer cranes to make it easier. Thinking now that a smaller - and thus significantly lighter - engine might be the way to go, while understanding that it would mean forgetting schedules. But that's the idea, the dream.

( Our Great Mover and Shaker may want to mover this.  BUT, may I
point out,  we aren't talking ABOUT outboards,  but their bulk and
oddness.  This is more about where the well is in relation to other
important in-use boat real-estate.)





ON MOVING THE PORTABLE AUXILARY FROM ITS RIGHTFUL DOMAIN

TO ANOTHER SECTION OF THE VESSEL...…………..{Ses.IIbTx w - 750}


Kurt,  the removal of a 57lb 6-4 Merc* from the well to the cabin sole

inside the Ariel  ( I have observed this a number of times,  but years

ago when we were younger and stronger) :  IT TAKES THREE ADULTS

TO ACCOMPLISH and includes retrieving the OBmotor back out of the

cabin, returning it to the lazaret,  positioned on its correct storage side  

while away from the boat.  It also requires the well plug to be installed.


In my experience it takes THREE STALWART SAILORS:  One to unscrew

the clamps, lift the outboard up & out of the lararet,  and rest it on the

cockpit deck -- we do this while the second sailor is in the way manning

the tiller -- the third sailor, usually the Captain,  is wedged in the C'way
 
ready to receive the motor,  which is somewhat difficult because it is hot

and wet,  and  the companionway steps are in the way,  steps are where

the pointy bottom of the shaft rests at least once on its way down into

the accommodation..  And on its way back up..


This description does not include the number of practice runs it takes

to become proficient in this on-the-water OB motor ballet.  We became

experts,  bodyparts and varnishwork excluded.  Nor how the motor was

secured to the cabin sole  when the Ariel was jumping around racing.  

………………………………..Those were the days!!!...……………………………….



__________________________________________________________
*poetic license allows me to use Kurt's rather light weight 4stroke. Can't

remember what motor we became part of on the MaiTai, probably about

the same in a two stroke.